What happened to the days when....

Exsubmariner · #1 08-26-2005, 02:57 AM

I was naive enough to believe in things larger than my own self interests and I was brave enought to put myself in harms way for them?

mackthefork · #2 08-26-2005, 03:57 AM

Its because the people you would be helping think you are a mug for doing so. Ideals are always eventually broken down by those who don't have any.

Mack

Exsubmariner · #3 08-26-2005, 01:05 PM

I think you are right. Somewhere along the line I think I figured the whole US society was like this and I stopped thinking it was worth defending. I think it happened when Ken Starr showed a sitting President was involved in a real estate scam and not a thing happened to him.
X

#4 08-26-2005, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it happened when Ken Starr showed a sitting President was involved in a real estate scam and not a thing happened to him.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Really? It was Whitewater for you? Some governor got hosed in a scam, then got elected president, and that's what destroyed your confidence in mankind?

I mean, go ahead and believe whatever you want about what people and society are like. I just think it's funny that that was your turning point. You could have picked something like the Kitty Genovese murder (where dozens of neighbors saw her getting stabbed and didn't call the police), or the Holocaust, or Rwanda. If you had to choose a presidential scandal, you might as well have picked a real one like Watergate.

Exsubmariner · #5 08-26-2005, 04:13 PM

Ha Ha. That's funny. It was more like some governor took part in the scam, then got elected President. I was barely alive when watergate happened.

No seriously. Whitewater was the thing. I'll tell you I lost all faith our political system. I realized it was no longer there (or maybe never was) to serve the interests of the country. Those involved, the political class, if you will were running it simply for their own greed. It was being treated like it was there for their own ends, not to serve the greater needs of the country.

One side said "look, theres a President who's a theif." The other side said "you're just mad because you lost the election, we better circle the wagons, never mind the truth." The other side said "we'll prosecute" other side "oh yeah, well we'll obstruct, and the people you do get will just be pardoned by the President at the end of his term."

Law didn't matter, truth didn't matter. Everyone involved protected themselves and each other and every body else got screwed.

The political class in this country, both on the left side and the right are driving it straight into the dirt. I voted for Bush because I thought Kerry was a sleaze and Bush was the lesser of two evils. I understood that Bush sold me out on immigration and sold me out on the medicare drug laws (spoken kick backs to drug makers at my expense) and was aware that he would probably sell me out again by giving subsidies to the oil industry for continuing to gouge me on gas (this has happened). No one looks out for me or you or anyone else who participates in the economy and pays their taxes. It makes me sick. It makes me not want to play. But it's the only game going. What a conundrum.

Rant over.

X

Roybert · #6 08-26-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ha Ha. That's funny. It was more like some governor took part in the scam, then got elected President. I was barely alive when watergate happened.

No seriously. Whitewater was the thing. I'll tell you I lost all faith our political system. I realized it was no longer there (or maybe never was) to serve the interests of the country. Those involved, the political class, if you will were running it simply for their own greed. It was being treated like it was there for their own ends, not to serve the greater needs of the country.

One side said "look, theres a President who's a theif." The other side said "you're just mad because you lost the election, we better circle the wagons, never mind the truth." The other side said "we'll prosecute" other side "oh yeah, well we'll obstruct, and the people you do get will just be pardoned by the President at the end of his term."

Law didn't matter, truth didn't matter. Everyone involved protected themselves and each other and every body else got screwed.

The political class in this country, both on the left side and the right are driving it straight into the dirt. I voted for Bush because I thought Kerry was a sleaze and Bush was the lesser of two evils. I understood that Bush sold me out on immigration and sold me out on the medicare drug laws (spoken kick backs to drug makers at my expense) and was aware that he would probably sell me out again by giving subsidies to the oil industry for continuing to gouge me on gas (this has happened). No one looks out for me or you or anyone else who participates in the economy and pays their taxes. It makes me sick. It makes me not want to play. But it's the only game going. What a conundrum.

Rant over.

X

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt the same way when I found out about Bush doing business with Salem bin Laden though the Arbusto Oil/James Bath connection and when I found out Bush (allegedly) illegally sold Harken Oil stock with the benefit of inside information.

[Edit] I was born a couple of years after Watergate, so I found out about Arbusto/Harken roughly the same time you would've found out about Whitewater. I guess then, that our political disillusionment is more a function of age than of any political leanings that we may have had at the time of discovery.

Exsubmariner · #7 08-26-2005, 04:51 PM

Wow Roybert,
That's some intense psychobabble man. I psychobabble myself sometimes but geez.

I think you interpreted what I said as Bush bashing. I think the guy has done a good job overall, in fact a really good job in leading the country foriegn policy wise post 9-11, but on certain things, he flat out sucks. That's an honest assessment and I think a fair one. I'm not into believing in hints and allegations and rumors, I'm just looking at the results of legislation and the actions & inactions of the administration. God help me I've pissed off the right wing kooks who think Bush can do no wrong.

X (who isn't as Republican as some might believe)

#8 08-26-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are right. Somewhere along the line I think I figured the whole US society was like this and I stopped thinking it was worth defending. I think it happened when Ken Starr showed a sitting President was involved in a real estate scam and not a thing happened to him.
X

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact, I don't think Ken starr showed this. Was Clinton arrested? Was this in the same news story that showed where the WMDs are in Iraq? I must have missed it.

Roybert · #9 08-26-2005, 04:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow Roybert,
That's some intense psychobabble man. I psychobabble myself sometimes but geez.

I think you interpreted what I said as Bush bashing. I think the guy has done a good job overall, in fact a really good job in leading the country foriegn policy wise post 9-11, but on certain things, he flat out sucks. That's an honest assessment and I think a fair one. I'm not into believing in hints and allegations and rumors, I'm just looking at the results of legislation and the actions & inactions of the administration. God help me I've pissed off the right wing kooks who think Bush can do no wrong.

X (who isn't as Republican as some might believe)

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this one of those kooky, sarcastic responses or are you playing it straight? I apologize for having to ask.

DVaut1 · #10 08-26-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this one of those kooky, sarcastic responses or are you playing it straight? I apologize for having to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

Self-admitted, asinine-troll Xsubmarier and 'cmon guys I'm serious now' Xsubmariner are more or less indistinguishable - which leads me to believe he's either just a full-time troll, or just falls back on "Hey, look I'm a goofy troll! hehe!" whenever he posts something that's clearly inane, but he thought might pass as something reasonable if not called-out for its abject foolishness.