Super EZ value bet,or is it.

[Shillx]

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I would 3bet a raise in a heartbeat.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why would he come to life with 88 now? The only thing I could see him raising is either a stone bluff or a dumb 64/63 that thought it outdrew AA-TT.

OP - Yeah we value bet this river. What am I missing here? He has shown his willingness to call all the way so what makes you think he won't call now with something weak? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[deception5]

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If I put him squarely on a bluff, I'd just call.

But I think he raises and calls here with any pocket pair as well.

Villian holding a 5 is very unlikely.

But having said that, I think I'd fold to a cap.

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I really don't like any play that involves us folding this river.

[goofball]

All- I think 3betting is overplaying the hand. Yes his range is large and is unlikely to include a better hand, but if he can find a raise on this board (after just calling the first two streets) then he has me beat too often for me to be 3betting (or he's bluffing and why do I want to 3bet then). I think there's almost no chance he raises this river for value, ever.

grghines-

I don't like a checkraise on the turn because I think he's checking behind all the time. He's especially checking behind with a draw, and the only hands he bets he'll probably just fold to a checkraise.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would 3bet a raise in a heartbeat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why would he come to life with 88 now?

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With an UTG raiser and 3 cold callers, do you open up your 3betting range or close it down?

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would 3bet a raise in a heartbeat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why would he come to life with 88 now?

[/ QUOTE ]

With an UTG raiser and 3 cold callers, do you open up your 3betting range or close it down?

[/ QUOTE ]

But even if he did make a correct pf-cc with 88, why would he smooth call the flop and turn?

I would not go for the check raise because more than likely hes chking. Either bet/call or check/call those kings in my opinion. Maybe he'll show jacks or queens, maybe a5, maybe trips who knows what he could have here to call. My guess is he made a straight, he prob raises the turn with trips. Check/ call is my play.

ez value bet

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would 3bet a raise in a heartbeat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why would he come to life with 88 now?

[/ QUOTE ]

With an UTG raiser and 3 cold callers, do you open up your 3betting range or close it down?

[/ QUOTE ]

But even if he did make a correct pf-cc with 88, why would he smooth call the flop and turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't want to get pushed off the best hand.

If you raise the turn with 88, you have to fold to a 3 bet. Don't you?

The way I see it though:

I'm 3betting preflop with a fairly wide range. If I'm feeling frisky and my opposition plays poorly, I'm 3bettting
AQs, AJs, 77, 88, 99, KQs maybe even ATs, QJs, JTs, T9s, 66-22 depending on how weak/aggressive my opponents are.

If I'm Villian, I'm calling down AKs, any pair etc.

As Villian, on the river:
I'm raising AK to fold another AK and folding to a 3bet.
I'm raising any medium pair for value expecting to get called by smaller pairs and maybe AK.
And I'm obviously raising and capping 66, 55, A5s.

I think there is a lot of weaker hands that raise this river.
I think there are a few that raise and call a 3bet.
I think there are quite a few that raise and fold to a 3bet.
I think ONLY hands that beat us are raising and capping.

There's every chance in the world I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. My 2c.

[goofball]

I bet, he called, he had AJo