A2s in a 10/20 game. flop and turn questions.

[MarkSummers]

Respectfully, I think think you're dead wrong. You dont need 2 pair or better to win. In this hand, my ace was good. The pot was huge, I was in position and I had a hand that plays very well in multi way pots. I would assume paying 2 bets is fine here.

[oreogod]

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a series of posts that are incorrect. quite amazing. playing Axs here in a raised pot is a big loser. if you are all playing those hands, you are giving away $. in addition to the 5.4% number, he is 28 to 1 to flop 2 pair or better. this is a clear fold and bad advice in most of these posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is Ed Miller a moron as well if he plays A2s here? He basically states that would be one of his plays in his book. Look at the hand charts.

I think it is u that is confused. By confused I mean wrong, by wrong I mean fundamentally. I literally LOLed reading one of your posts in this thread. That bad wrong. You should look into that.

[oreogod]

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I think that you got every street wrong except the river. Fold pf. Bet the flop. Just call the turn. Also, you should include reads on the players involved (PT stats or at least something).

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This is also wrong. E A S Y flop check. The only thing I change up on this hand is calling the turn.

Everybody seems to agree on the flopcheck as do i, but where lies the borderline for checking vs. betting this flop?

Ill bet this flop if it gets upto 4 opponents, 5/6 if they're tight(and i got a pretty good handle on the cr'se possibility of the EP-players). Is that spewing?

[amulet]

mark, you say your ace was good (if you hit it). part of my point that you are often dominated by the preflop raiser. if he has aa, ak, aq, ajs, you are making a clear error. IF that preflop raiser has kk, qq, jj, with a few other opponents (since many players play aces with high cards), to play to the 1 in 6 times you flop an ace seems like a huge mistake. both because it is only 1 in 6, and more importantly, because when you hit the ace it will often loose costing you $.

[amulet]

i never said or implied that ed miller was a moron, so please act like you are having a constructive discussion, and do not put word in my mouth. it amazes me how often the replys here are venomous vs a friendly discussion about a subject we all love. we can disagree in peace.
ssh is not a beginner book, and like any book the principles in the book should be applied in certain situations. furthermore, i believe that ssh has caused many here who do not have a advanced understanding of the game, to play losing hands too aggressively. but it is a great book.
back to the hand; calling 2 bets here with A2s is a losing play. i suggest you think about why i am saying it, instead of attacking me. it might save you $.

[GreywolfNYC]

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furthermore, i believe that ssh has caused many here who do not have a advanced understanding of the game, to play losing hands too aggressively.

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Nice to see a thinking player here who isn't in lock-step with the herd. I agree, amulet. And I'm grateful to Ed Miller for creating so many new players who like to get tricky with the second-best hand.

[lil feller]

I'm not very handy with poker stove, but I would guess that if we put the limper on a reasonable range of hands, the MP raiser on TT+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, KQo, and the cold callers on any pair, any suited ace, any broadway (?) and medium sized suited no-gappers. Put hero on his hand, of course. I'm guessing that that none of the hand ranges will have a commanding lead. Combine that with the fact that hero has position, and the game is passive, and I can't understand how you feel this is such a clear fold.

You keep quoting chances of "flopping" monster hands, but thats not all thats at stake here. He can flop draws, which he can draw at cheaply in a game so passive. He also has good implied odds should he make the best hand as clearly his opponents are horribly loose/passive.

Do you have any other real reasons for folding here, because just spouting off doesn't account for all the times hero can draw for free, or take into account all the bets he'll make when he hits.

lf

[MarkSummers]

[ QUOTE ]
mark, you say your ace was good (if you hit it). part of my point that you are often dominated by the preflop raiser. if he has aa, ak, aq, ajs, you are making a clear error. IF that preflop raiser has kk, qq, jj, with a few other opponents (since many players play aces with high cards), to play to the 1 in 6 times you flop an ace seems like a huge mistake. both because it is only 1 in 6, and more importantly, because when you hit the ace it will often loose costing you $.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true but sometimes the ace is good. Obviously I would have loved to hit a flush rather than an ace but in a situation like this, someone doesn't always have to have another ace. I think it's safe to assume that you can count the remaining aces as at least one out because sometimes it will win it but sometimes it wont. The ace is just another card you must at least aknowledge could help your hand. You can't always wait for the nuts to come in.

In one of the examples from SSH (I don't have my copy on hand), it has you with A8s or A7s and cold calling on the button after only 3 callers in a raised pot. If that is correct with that many players, it seems that cold calling with A2s would be correct with 6 opponents. The pot in this one is really big, I think you gotta be crazy not to fold this one preflop.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]

ssh is not a beginner book, and like any book the principles in the book should be applied in certain situations. furthermore, i believe that ssh has caused many here who do not have a advanced understanding of the game, to play losing hands too aggressively. but it is a great book.
back to the hand; calling 2 bets here with A2s is a losing play. i suggest you think about why i am saying it, instead of attacking me. it might save you $.

[/ QUOTE ]

1.You are right that many do not have an advanced understanding of the game...Id say 75 percent of this forum fits this description (maybe 65 percent). However anyone who advocated playing this hand did not play this hand "too aggressivly." Well...anyone who knew what they are doing anyway...that comment doesnt make sense unless u are describing a broad range of players who misunderstand SSHE. It doesnt fit here...in general yes, but not this thread.

Also...do u know what u are doing postflop? (not u in general)...but anyone who plays this hand here should know what they are doing to play this hand. You can play fit or fold but sometimes u hit a piece and if u have no idea how to proceed u could lose money over time.

2.Losing play...actually its really not...if u know what u are doing.

Also...just because u cold call here w/ odds does not mean u are going to go insane postflop. A decent part of the time u will dump the hand, the other part u will play poker. Again, anyone who advocated playing this hand all the way through didnt play it aggressive...they played it well....check flop, call turn, river speaks for itself. You do what the situation calls for...sometimes its passive, sometimes it aggressive.

Here is a question...do u play 98s, 87s, 75s here (on the button)?