Holocaust Denial

[Cyrus]

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German-legislated persecution of Jews, if not mass murder, began long long before 1939.

[/ QUOTE ] Legislated persecution, yes. Mass murder, no.

I had the opportunity to say this to someone else here, over an exchange of PMs : Even if "the cause is just", it does not pay (certainly not in our day and age) to lie or exaggerate about it, under no circumstances. What usually happens is that the lie and the exaggeration are unmasked and the oppositions grabs onto those and tries to bring down the whole cause. E.g. The Revisionists "prove" that "less than six million jews died" (e.g. 5.9 mln), ergo No Holocaust!

Back to the issue : The Nazis started passing anti-Jewish legislation and anti-many other things legislation as soon as Hitler became Chancellor. (Which does not register as "long long before" in my book but I won't quibble.) They did not start the mass murder until well into World War II, when they set up the camps inside Poland and the death machine cranked up also in Germany.

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The general consensus holds that the Holocaust began with the enactment of the Nuremberg laws, in 1935.

[/ QUOTE ] Nope, that is certainly not "the general consensus". The racial laws spawned the Holocaust but did not enact it. Historians trace the start of the crime even earlier, when Hitler outlined his sentiments (and hinted broadly at his intentions) in My Struggle.

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Of course, Jabotinsky was a Russian, so it's more likely his ideas came from somewhere else (hint: starts with "P" ends with "ogroms")

[/ QUOTE ] 0 points for this answer.

At the time of Jabotinsky, the Soviet Union was experiencing its more tolerant period, relatively speaking, as far as Jews were concerned. The persecutions at the top of the power echelon were not affecting the Jewish masses in the USSR. Anti-Jewish pogroms were a czarist specialty.

Jabotinsky did not need to have suffered any "real world traumas" to formulate his ideas -- an ideologue does not need any such, not necessarily. These are facile, American B-movie kind of "explanations" for men's actions or ideas. Jabotinsky found "cause" in Jewish history to formulate ideas such as his -- and, as to whether or not they were "correct", that is another subject.

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Given ultra-nationalist Europe and "Arabia" at the time, a Jewish nationalist movement was only to be expected!

[/ QUOTE ] True, true.

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[Reform Zionism] didn't ... enjoy any mainstream public support, until sometime around the end of the H[olocaust].

[/ QUOTE ]..which is around 1945. Which means Reform Zionism (a virulent, ultra-nationalist, intolerant and irredentist movement like Britain's BNP, France's National Front, etc) and its equally odious offshoots DID enjoy mainstream public support ever since Israel came to be!

We agree... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]