Let me know if my thoughts are correct on this session

This is my first post on the twoplustwo.

Let me introduce myself, I have only been playing poker since the summer of 2004, Ive read tons of books and mostly played in NL, a few tournaments and have recently started working on my limit game.

I feel that results wise Ive been doing very well at either, but my hand sample isnt large enough yet that you can look at anything and say "ya this guy knows what he's doing". Mainly I play 1/2, 2/4, or sometimes 3/6 limit and at some point if I have enough bankroll will wonder if Im good enough to try a higher level.

Im also kind of beyond posting "how would you play this?" hands. I think Im at the point now where I am trying to evaluate my play in general and find leaks. Which is why what I would like to do is post a link to the following session (105 hands) and if someone is curious maybe they can let me know if my thoughts on it are correct.

This session is somewhat significant to me because it's one where I lost money (not a ton though) but I felt like I played almost every hand perfectly. (if I ever feel Im playing perfectly it's probally the best time to have someone else take a look at it) Otherwise I felt that this was just a typical session where I played well but the varience just took a slight downswing, if someone else can see a diffrent story in it I would be curious to see their point of view:

http://www.robotennis.com/pty2-4-loss.txt

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who has the time to look at this. You probally need PokerTracker I imagine to be able to do it.

[crunchy1]

I only looked through a few of the first hands you had. I saw you call down with bottom pair (A3s). A few hands later you didn't raise PF after 1 EP limper with ATs.

I need to go soon so I stopped reading there. You're definitely not playing perfectly. You're definitely not beyond posting "how would you play this?" hands.

Lucky you - you're in the right place to learn.

Good luck!!

Thanks for looking at it crunchy.

The ATs had makes me realize that one of the flaws in my game is that I probally misplay Axs hands. I dont raise them when I should, and I probally overplay the lower ones.

This is what I was thinking as far as the A3s hand.

On the flop I had 5 outs, but with only getting 5 to 1 on my money that probally wasnt a great call. I think I am geting some degree of implied odds if I hit but I was in bad position to make that call since the other two guys could of raised. (just as bad though that they folded which made it really not worth it)

On the turn though I gained 4 more outs. and I think my original 5 are still good because I actually think he has top pair. I think I can make an reasonable call here, cant I?

Looks like we checked the river down, if he would of bet that I would of folded.

[TripleH68]

Looks like you were a little cold on starting cards,
and several marginal hands hit you in EP which always sucks.

Just a few hands I noticed were interesting working backwards from the end of the session...

-Your QQ gets 3-bet preflop. All undercards fall postflop and no more bets go in? Villain has AJo. ?

-TJ flops OESD, well played, draw hits and you check-raise the turn. Excellent. But when the board pairs on the turn why did you raise and call a 3-bet?

-Other than those two there were just a couple limps I would question. One A7s in LP with one limper ahead of you. One KJo in EP?

Keep at it and thanks for the post.

[jskills]

I didn't review hand by hand.

Some of the hands Crunchy pointed out to you are obviously issues.

But in terms of the big losses, it appears you lost a decent amount after flopping a set and losing to a runner runner straight (4.5 BB) and another hand where you hit your OESD on the turn and the board paired on the river (7.5 BB). Since your entire loss was about 10 BB, you can look at these two suckouts as somewhat of a comfort, since without them alone, you'd have turned a profit. Suckouts are part of poker, but the times there are more than there "should" be, it is going to cost you, regardless of how well you play.


Suckouts happen. Usually they account for about 20-25% of your losses. If you're at the 20% threshold, you're usually going to find you're ahead. The closer you get to 25% (or above), the harder it is going to be for you to actually turn a profit. The rest of your losses is just either (1) you playing good hands and other people playing better ones or (2) you making mistakes. So focus on minimizing your mistakes the best you can and don't let the suckouts mess with your mind.

I started tracking my losses hand by hand after each session this way, and it has proved benificial in terms of recognizing mistakes and keeping my sanity.


Another tool you can use to evaluate your play is PokerGrader. Here is a link to the review of the session you posted:


Report Card

It is by no means perfect, but I do like to look at the "luck factor" it displays, since it will often assure you that a particular session was indeed full of bad luck river cards or on the other hand it will tell you when you were getting lucky too. The report card grade part I wouldn't worry too much about. It's interesting though ...

Also remember not to worry too much about individual sessions. They are psychologically benificial when you do have a winning one sometimes, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just one session.

Good luck.

[JayKon]

Since others have already focused on particular hands, I won't.

I found your preflop play OK (except for your love of Axs and suited connectors). You will note that you won nicely when you did raise PF.

Other than that, your play reeked of weak-tight. I didn't see one check-raise in the entire session and your 3+ agression was from betting and folding, not much postflop raising.

I think you shoud have made a small profit in this session.

Jay

PS. The QQ hand was just horribly played.

Wow, that PokerGrader site is awesome. Thanks.

QQ Hand - He was a calling station that played over 60% of all his hands and usually took them down to the showdown.

My strategy against this is to keep the pot small if I dont feel I have a super hand (see the showdown for as cheap as possible), and to pump the hell out of it if I have two pair or better.

If this is the correct strategy, perhaps I misvalued my hand in this situation.

The JT hand was also played against one of these guys (who played very loose and wild). So I have to believe that just because he bet it didnt mean anything to me necessarily so I was still going to raise for value. Then when I was re-raised, I called because again he's an idiot and I think I was getting a good deal on my money if he didnt hit the boat.

So do you think I should 3 bet A7s after a limper? Im not sure if that's a matter of me misvaluing those hands, or perhaps I have a bad habit of limping too often behind the other limpers? I usually never open limp into a pot, but I notice I limp behind other limpers all the time especially in 2/4 and below.

This is sort of what I meant by areas where I am habitually playing in a matter that is not profitable. I understand that I am going to make poor decisions here and there, but it's even more important to me to find the more general things where Im probally making the same sort of mistakes because it's part of my general strategy.

I should mention as well, that I use PokerTracker, and use GameTime+ while I play. So that does somewhat affect how I will play certain hands that is not that apparent from just the hand history.

While I play (even online) I noticed a lot of times I really have a good idea if Im ahead or not even if the facts dont seem to be there. Id have to say out of all the times Ive felt this way Im rarely wrong. (that's of course not bragging that much because there are plenty of times when I dont know what's going on and I have to guess or just follow the EV)

Ive been on other forums where it was suggested that the ability to read hands is pretty much useless in limit but Im not sure of that.

I wouldnt say I love Axs and suited connectors, I just thought they were worth limping in with. Maybe I was wrong. Like I said in the other post, do you think maybe I limp along too much in general? I know enough not to open limp, or to limp from too early with a weak hand (although occasionaly as you can see I do), but I know I tend to limp with all kinds of weaker hands (Axs, KJ, suited connectors) if I can get away with it.

I think this particular session I tended to not check-raise because I was dealing with calling stations that would of possibly checked along on me, so I didnt want to lose any bets. Also I had the fortune to be in EP almost everytime I was hitting a flop so I only had the choice of betting into everyone or trying to check raise. I dont think I had a lot of chances to raise anyone else because I usually wasnt in LP to be able to do that. (otherwise I certainly would) If Im dealing with an aggressive player that I feel is going to bet (or someone who hit something) I'll check-raise, but if it's just a calling station I usually want to make them pay full price so I dont like to risk it.

I would be curious to see if anyone else thinks I should of made a small profit. That seems a bit out there.

I know now that I misplayed the QQ hand, thanks. But in the process of correcting my play, I dont think in terms of whether it was "HORRIBLE" or not. I try to reason why I made certain decisions and if someone wants to discuss those and maybe point out where Im wrong (in the thinking part of it) that's cool.

And actually as far as check-raising, here is where I am at with it in general. Before I few months ago or so I actually always check raised, but I wasnt doing it to be sneaky it was because I never bet into my hands until I knew if it was ahead or not. So sometimes I would even have top pair, check it, and then by the time it got around to me I would raise because I knew I was ahead (this happened mostly at the casino where I can sniff out this sort of thing).

So anyways what I noticed is that I constantly was playing in this manner which really is sort of a reactive way of playing and not really aggressive. Which I think was costing me tons of money. (especially considering Im playing loose players that probally would of just called my bets anyway) Also it was very predictable and if they werent complete morons everyone knew what I had and folded.

So now I bet from early position more, not even so much just because I have the best hand but even if I have any piece of it. I think it's actually a good strategy in general but I admit Im probally taking it completely too far in the other direction from what I was doing before and perhaps there is some happy medium.