Peyton Manning

[Walter Pullis]

Easy prediction.
Peyton Manning will someday win a Super Bowl. He will win exactly one.

What many posters on here overlook:
Players don't win SuperBowls.
Teams do.

[brettbrettr]

There aren't certain player who have more influence over the outcome of a game than others?

Of course. But it still takes a team, and a team effort.

Super Bowl winners:


XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Baltimore 34, N.Y. Giants 7
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Denver 34, Atlanta 19
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Denver 31, Green Bay 24
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Green Bay 35, New England 21
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 San Francisco 49, San Diego 26
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Dallas 30, Buffalo 13
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Washington 37, Buffalo 24
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 N.Y. Giants 20, Buffalo 19
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
XXIII Jan. 22, 1989 San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16
XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
XX Jan. 26, 1986 Chicago 46, New England 10
XIX Jan. 20, 1985 San Francisco 38, Miami 16
XVIII Jan. 22, 1984 L.A. Raiders 38, Washington 9
XVII Jan. 30, 1983 Washington 27, Miami 17
XVI Jan. 24, 1982 San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
XV Jan. 25, 1981 Oakland 27, Philadelphia 10
XIV Jan. 20, 1980 Pittsburgh 31, L.A. Rams 19
XIII Jan. 21, 1979 Pittsburgh 35, Dallas 31
XII Jan. 15, 1978 Dallas 27, Denver 10
XI Jan. 9, 1977 Oakland 32, Minnesota 14
X Jan. 18, 1976 Pittsburgh 21, Dallas 17
IX Jan. 12, 1975 Pittsburgh 16, Minnesota 6
VIII Jan. 13, 1974 Miami 24, Minnesota 7
VII Jan. 14, 1973 Miami 14, Washington 7
VI Jan. 16, 1972 Dallas 24, Miami 3
V Jan. 17, 1971 Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
IV Jan. 11, 1970 Kansas City 23, Minnesota 7
III Jan. 12, 1969 N.Y. Jets 16, Baltimore 7
II Jan. 14, 1968 Green Bay 33, Oakland 14
I Jan. 15, 1967 Green Bay 35, Kansas City 10

[brettbrettr]

No one is disagreeing with your mundane (non) point. If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls. Clearly there is a skill to being able to perform in big games that some qb's have and others either have less of.

Incidentally, I'm reading a book right now called Crimes Against Logic. It attacks people who say things like "Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black" or "you're one to talk" because they don't address the statement or question being discussed they merely avoid the question by offering a mundane (non) point. Sadly, the author didn't provide a list of super bowl winning teams...

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I know you aren't the one who said it, but earlier on someone trotted out the old "he's got the rings" argument as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning, and IMO, that's total bunk, and I think you know that too. Your take?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I called you a jerkoff last night I was drunk. Apologies. I also think you're probably talking about me here and I should clarify. I did not mean to imply that Brady is better than Manning b/c of rings. I don't really agree that Brady is better than Manning at all. But Brady is the best crunchtime qb in the league. This is what I'm saying. Hot and cold I think Manning is better. But in a specific situation, like the down by 6 one minute no timeouts, I take Brady and its not even close.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between Carson and Ben is that Carson handles more of the offensive load than Ben.

[/ QUOTE ]

that and accuracy.

with the balls Ben throws, it's amazing he hasn't thrown more INT than TD. hell, NE dropped 3.

I'm glad you're reading a book. Hopefully it has a chapter on comprehension.

[ QUOTE ]
If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls.

[/ QUOTE ]

like Manning and Palmer and Marino?


Maybe instead of denigrating other posters (and having to apologize later for your stupor), you could spend a moment and see the point.

But I'm not counting on it!

Later playa.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know you aren't the one who said it, but earlier on someone trotted out the old "he's got the rings" argument as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning, and IMO, that's total bunk, and I think you know that too. Your take?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I called you a jerkoff last night I was drunk. Apologies. I also think you're probably talking about me here and I should clarify. I did not mean to imply that Brady is better than Manning b/c of rings. I don't really agree that Brady is better than Manning at all. But Brady is the best crunchtime qb in the league. This is what I'm saying. Hot and cold I think Manning is better. But in a specific situation, like the down by 6 one minute no timeouts, I take Brady and its not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes MUCH more sense than many of the arguments I've seen from many people (here and in conversations with friends) about how good people think Brady is. I think the separating factor in your argument will thus be:

Peyton hasn't been in many big, close-score, need to make the late comeback. Either they've blown someone out or they've gotten blown out. Of course, that's a lot to be blamed on the defense. I'll even go out and further clarify my opinion on Tom Brady. Good QB, sound throwing the ball. Doesn't make mistakes when he's got all day to throw. I think if you look at the occasions where teams have been able to pressure Brady consistently, that's where you'll see the majority of his mistakes made. So he's not going to lose games for New England most of the time. That said, he's not going to dazzle you with his numbers most of the time.

I don't know what happens for sure when you put Manning in a really close situation in a big game like the Super Bowl, but looking at how he runs the most potent offense in the league with incredible reads that he makes during play, I'd have to assume he wouldn't be the type to crumble. Yeah, I saw the playoff game against NE last year, and that was a cluster of mistakes so terrible by everyone on the Colts team that I can't place blame solely on Manning.

Basically, Brady is consistent, sure, but he's been picked up by his team for his entire career. Peyton got dealt a crappy team and never has had any defense until this year basically. Lots of arguments for both sides.

And as a closing note for the people who think I take this too seriously and whatever, I just really, really like debating sports, and this topic seems like it'll never, ever die. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If you read the thread you'd see that we are talking about differing valuations of players who have won super bowls.

[/ QUOTE ]

The syntax of this sentence sucks. Prob why you're confused. My bad.

What I was talking about was a metric that values performing well in big games. Whether they be super bowls, playoff games, whatever. And players that can lead game winning drives at the end of big ganes, chit like this.

If you look at the comments about Palmer, you'll see that people have made the point that he hasn't won a big game yet. This is a good point and fits in with what we're talking about here. Marino is an example of a QB who did not win a Super Bowl but had big, big numbers. (I have no idea where he fits in otherwise and I didn't mentioned him so don't asl me.) Peyton Manning obv fits for obv reasons.

As for denigrating people and apologizing, Yes, I apologized for calling him a jerkoff. Yes, I think saying Brady is "merely average" is dumb beyond belief. So "jerkoff" wasn't the right word. Whatever.