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#62
12-07-2005, 02:39 PM
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Re: results
Noob here. Just a couple questions.
Following up on DcifrThis' line: "[EDIT]: i forgot to deal with the actual river bet decision. betting this river encourages a raise. what do you have that you play pf raise/call. flop check call. turn check call. river bet on a top pair pairing 3flush board? that to me looks exactly like a pair below jacks that is betting into AQ/AK for value. if she can't beat that pair or she can beat that pair she'll raise, but given it feels weak she may be able to beat some pairs but not others. its the weak feeling you get from her that should give you cause to pause and reflect for a moment and then 3bet b/c you can't beat any of those pairs but she folds them immediately." Would you fold if you were her? Is it correct for her to fold, given that the pot is 9.5 big bets to her? Fishlips 
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#64
12-07-2005, 03:30 PM
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Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
Did you choose this game based on ego, or did you really think you could beat this game? Game selection still counts. [/ QUOTE ] After playing that game all weekend...I'm honestly now convinced I was the best player in that game. Not by a lot, as there really isn't a lot of edges you can have when you get this high, and there are a few players it's very close/up for debate with I guess, but to answer your question...I played in the game because that's the game I figured I could win the most at. I also play my A++ game when I'm there (and yes I still make mistakes...like raising 44 ep) and I like the intensity of it. Did I really think I could beat the game? I know I could beat the game. Did I ever quit the game cause I didn't like the line-up? Yes, once. Could I have still beat them? Sure. Was it worth the variance? No. [ QUOTE ] Hate to say this, but it appears that you were tilting because you hadn't won a pot in this game. [/ QUOTE ] Fair enough. Like I said, after this hand I took a break, took a nap, and came back with a great attitude and by this point most of the line-up had changed and I got to start fresh again and I started off on the right foot too.
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#65
12-07-2005, 03:44 PM
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Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Did you choose this game based on ego, or did you really think you could beat this game? Game selection still counts. [/ QUOTE ] After playing that game all weekend...I'm honestly now convinced I was the best player in that game. Not by a lot, as there really isn't a lot of edges you can have when you get this high, and there are a few players it's very close/up for debate with I guess, but to answer your question...I played in the game because that's the game I figured I could win the most at. I also play my A++ game when I'm there (and yes I still make mistakes...like raising 44 ep) and I like the intensity of it. Did I really think I could beat the game? I know I could beat the game. Did I ever quit the game cause I didn't like the line-up? Yes, once. Could I have still beat them? Sure. Was it worth the variance? No. [ QUOTE ] Hate to say this, but it appears that you were tilting because you hadn't won a pot in this game. [/ QUOTE ] Fair enough. Like I said, after this hand I took a break, took a nap, and came back with a great attitude and by this point most of the line-up had changed and I got to start fresh again and I started off on the right foot too. [/ QUOTE ] I am so convinced that at this level you really got to learn to play mixed games. You can't believe how soft they can be for anyone who plays all games reasonably well. I don't think I've ever played straight holdem higher than 150/300, and I think that even during tournament time, a straight 200/400 holdem game, even for the best player in the game, has the variance to expectation ratio that I, being the nit I am, would not like. (Also, I would've been real surprised if you weren't one of the two best at the table.)
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#66
12-07-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
You should not have been in the hand to begin with, however, you should not have bet the river if you played it this far. I have played many hours with Liz. She has you creamed 99% in this spot. She will just payoff with a hand like a little stonger than yours on the river. This is a horrible bet and even worse to payoff.
Good Luck, Terri
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#68
12-07-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
Pardon me for being a johnny come lately to this thread (I usually avoid reading threads with too many responses already, out of laziness) but the discussion here is really interesting.
Think the only issue outstanding on this hand is whether you should three-bet the river. I'm not adding much here, but I think it would simply be a little ridiculous to think that she would put you on a jack and play so passively that you never once showed any strength and yet, suddenly will three-bet that trips with a flush possibility on the river. I'm not saying that a reasonable person should fear the flush, but I am saying that a reasonable person would likely have shown some strength prior to the river with a J. A three-bet here would be incongrous with the entire play of the hand thus far and she ain't laying down anything that can beat you.
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#69
12-07-2005, 04:11 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
[ QUOTE ]
You should not have been in the hand to begin with, however, you should not have bet the river if you played it this far. I have played many hours with Liz. She has you creamed 99% in this spot. She will just payoff with a hand like a little stonger than yours on the river. This is a horrible bet and even worse to payoff. Good Luck, Terri [/ QUOTE ] given he bet and liz, how much better/worse is a 3 bet than a call? Barron
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#70
12-07-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: 200/400 bellagio vs liz lieu
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You should not have been in the hand to begin with, however, you should not have bet the river if you played it this far. I have played many hours with Liz. She has you creamed 99% in this spot. She will just payoff with a hand like a little stonger than yours on the river. This is a horrible bet and even worse to payoff. Good Luck, Terri [/ QUOTE ] given he bet and liz, how much better/worse is a 3 bet than a call? Barron [/ QUOTE ] A three bet here screams great strength or great weakness. The play of the hand up till now is not consistent with strength, so the more logical conclusion is weakness. Unless she wasn't thinking clearly that day, she should be calling any hand that beats his (tho she may call w/ AK also). And I believe her raise was one of those combo value/bluff bets, where you may a small percentage of the time bluff out a slightly better hand, but a significant % of the time be betting the best hand. And people usually smart enough to make plays like that also tend to be smart/suspicious enough to guard against them. Now of course, if her image of BK was that he's a complete timid nit who is playing way above his comfort zone, she may fold. But it's just hard to think what she could reasonable put him on that she could fold. A complete timid nit wouldn't three-bet middle pair here, and would probably be too afraid of the flush to even three-bet trip jacks. Everyone has brain-freezes every now and then, but unless she decides to have one at that moment, it just doesn't seem like a fold is likely.
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