$109... Getting Frisky with Combos?... or not

[bigt439]

The villain was an aggressive big stack in most of the typical ways although he did limp to my bb more than that read would indicate. I have some thoughts on this hand, but I'll post them as the discussion picks up.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter

Hero (t2172)
UTG (t1270)
MP (t1196)
Button (t1341)
SB (t4021)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t300) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t150</font>, Hero calls t150.

Turn: (t600) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t450</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1050

[kyro]

With a pair, I'm calling the turn and pushing if a 3, 8 or diamond hits. You don't have enough FE to push I think.

[inyaface]

Not only does it seem villan is pretty big and wont fold but you only have one card to hit. The 450 bet is way to big to call AND you dont even know if your hand is good when you hit a 3,8, or diamond
Youve got a decent stack, no use to take a chance by trying to hit something
even though your a weak sauce biotch I like the fold

[freemoney]

i think a fold, call, push are all ok here depending on villian and texture of game and image.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
i think a fold, call, push are all ok here depending on villian and texture of game and image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I think it's close because this is a tough situation, but I feel like one play has to be better than the other and I was hoping to get a discussion about that going. I've already given my read on villain. The game has been playing like a normal sit and go, and I have a pretty standard image. I doubt if anyone sees me as anything but another player. Any more thoughts on this, I think it's an interesting hand.

[bluefeet]

CR'ing the flop is an option. While a t450-500 reraise might pick up the pot, it is also a bit unnecessary to obtain our optimal goal - get a cheap showdown on a hand that has potential to pull ahead/win at showdown.

I would actually minraise his flop bet. If he comes over the top, so be it, I'm done. A likely call, is just as likely to result in a much desired check to you on the turn (whether he has a hand or not).

Depending on how "helpful" the turn card was (the flush perhaps), you have the option to lead strong. Without help (or in this case...little help), you could accept the turn check giving you the river position to react accordingly to villian's river action/or lack there of.

The initial increased investment on the flop will often be cheaper than calling with odds throughout.

[ZeroPointMachine]

Why not raise the flop to 400-500? Villians bet means he has two cards. A raise can take the pot or buy you a river card.

[inyaface]

I like the flop min reraise play but I find it works a lot more in limit. The only advantage is it sometimes confuses the hell out of the original bettor. In this situation I'm not convinced its plus EV for the number of times the bettor will just call and then check the turn. Then again this min bet is often a stupid steal and the min raise might sometimes get a fold. A big ish reraise to 3-4 hundered might get a fold a lot of the time but I'm just not sure of the risk reward ration in this case. I think that theres so many ways to play the hand that could be right that its very read dependant, mostly I think it depends on what the villan was doing after he limped to the sb. If he was min betting the flop a lot I like the reraise on the flop more and more. Once you hit the turn though the big lead seems to indicate a pretty strong hand (based on my limited knowledge of the hand and the villan) and I really think folding is the best play.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the flop min reraise play but I find it works a lot more in limit. The only advantage is it sometimes confuses the hell out of the original bettor. In this situation I'm not convinced its plus EV for the number of times the bettor will just call and then check the turn. Then again this min bet is often a stupid steal and the min raise might sometimes get a fold. A big ish reraise to 3-4 hundered might get a fold a lot of the time but I'm just not sure of the risk reward ration in this case. I think that theres so many ways to play the hand that could be right that its very read dependant, mostly I think it depends on what the villan was doing after he limped to the sb. If he was min betting the flop a lot I like the reraise on the flop more and more. Once you hit the turn though the big lead seems to indicate a pretty strong hand (based on my limited knowledge of the hand and the villan) and I really think folding is the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. I think you're right. This hand can be played alot of ways with one not being too much better than the other. On the flop I don't think you can fold, so a raise or call both have their advantages. I don't like the minraise because you might as well throw in an extra t150 to make it a real raise and get some folding equity. I don't know if I like calling on the turn, so I think I'm in between folding or pushing, but pushing seems fairly wreckless against someone who will probably call with a Q, considering I feel I have a good edge with that many chips this late in the tournament. I think I play it the same if I had to do it again.

[inyaface]

was he min raising a lot after limping?