The Maniac, Passivist, and an insanely large pot.

[wyrd]

The point of this post is to see if I played this hand correctly, or if anyone would play it differently.

Honestly this is the first time I've ran into a maniac. At least that's what I classify him as. If he limps into a pot and it's raised, he has no hesitation to reraise. I've seen him do this with TJs, then proceed to bet out every street even with two overcards on the board.

Here's a hand I was involved in, with the Maniac having position on everyone. I was in first position, which just didn't make me feel any more comfortable.

Preflop:
UTG+1 limps,
CO (Passive) limps,
Button (Manic) limps,
SB (Me) raises with JJ,
BB (No read) raises,
UTG+1 folds,
CO calls,
Maniac caps,
everyone calls.

Flop (16 SB): 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The pot is insanely large at this point. I have no way to protect my hand. My intentions are to check and call to see what comes on the turn.

I check.
BB raises,
Passivist calls,
Maniac raises,

The Maniac raising gave me a good chance to protect my hand, so I took it,

I raise,

BB folds (woot, it worked)
Passivist calls,
Maniac caps,
everyone calls.

Turn (15 BB): 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I know the maniac is going to bet out, and I'm in a bad position, so my intentions are to call down. The pot is so big, I don't see any reason to raise. If I get reraised I'm probably beat, and raising certainly won't make anyone fold at this point. I call and hope for the best.

I check, Passivist checks, Maniac raises, everyone calls.

River (18 BB): T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, Passivist checks, Maniac bets, I call, Passivist folds.

Final pot is 20 BB.

I will not post the results, because I don't want this to be results oriented. What I would like to know is if I should be playing differently vs. maniacs, or did I play it just fine?

Please let me know. Thanks.

[RandBriscoe]

I wait to check-raise the turn...

[AlmightyJay]

I am definitely check/raising this turn. You know BB is a maniac who would do this with two cards, but then you turn around and say that you think he's got you beat. Go with your read. Check/raise the turn, the maniac will 3-bet, and hopefully the other player will fold. Being heads up with the maniac would be great.

Notwithstanding that even maniacs get great cards sometimes, preflop/flop was about right. JJ on an all-undercard board is a strong hand even vs. a non-maniac flop raiser/3-bettor.

I would definitely consider a turn c/r (and I rarely advocate the double c/r) to knock out (or extract $$ from) the tagalong CO, or (once CO's spade didn't hit) one on the river for value. Probably the turn.

[wyrd]

[ QUOTE ]
You know BB is a maniac who would do this with two cards, but then you turn around and say that you think he's got you beat. Go with your read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean to imply I was beat. I was saying if I raised and got re-raised, then I was likely beat. So overall, I didn't like my options of raising.

[damaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is so big, I don't see any reason to raise. If I get reraised I'm probably beat, and raising certainly won't make anyone fold at this point. I call and hope for the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe raise because you often have the best hand and, even if they ain't folding, you're making money on every bet going into the pot. And money is good.

[wyrd]

So generally speaking, I was a bit too passive, especially on the river when the flush draw and no overcards hit?

[Felipe]

:Blindpost:

I stopped reading here:
[ QUOTE ]
I know the maniac is going to bet out, and I'm in a bad position, so my intentions are to call down. 1) The pot is so big, 2)I don't see any reason to raise. If I get reraised I'm probably beat, and raising certainly 3)won't make anyone fold at this point. 4)I call and hope for the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. the pot is big --- this is why you must play aggressively. Throwing in another big bet or 2 or three to save a large pot is WORTH IT! -a la SSH

2.Reason to raise is to protect your hand JUST LIKE YOU DID ON THE FLOP (which was very good). You are forgetting the board has staright AND flush draws. You see no reason to protect your hand? You only have a pair! It needs protecting! And you have a good suspicion that maniac will bet the turn. You have good relative position in this hand! Do not miss a protection opportunity to save a few bets! PROTECT your equity!

3. You don't care if they fold. You care if they make a mistake. If they call without the odds, they are making a mistake. If they fold, they are NOT making a mistake. You want them to call when you raise and make him call 2 (or 3) cold on the turn.

4. Don't hope. Instead play well. Play tight. Protect your hands. Harness your reads of other players. Discuss strategy. The rest takes care of itself. Cards don't care what you wish for. Neither do your opponents.

I lead and proceed to jam this flop; you have a strong hand with a scary board you need to get money into this pot when you have the best of it, jam it. Depending on the flop action I lead the turn and proceed from there. The river is a bet/call I feel.

However, considering your action on the flop, I feel a c/r on the turn is very nice and a solid play.

[shant]

I think checkraising the turn is better than leading. The maniac is never taking a free card, and betting with anything, and the passive player may be drawing. The way you played it, I would consider bet/calling the river.