|
|
#61
07-26-2005, 04:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If he wants multiple bets going in on a big street on an AK board you are absolute toast. If he's calling single bets to showdown the same is likely true. If he's betting when it's HU, he's betting your hand for you, which is fine if he has a flush draw. If you raise the turn you'll get the max out of a draw, have like a nearly zero chance of folding an Ace, and not have a decision where you ponder how straightforward he is when he bets the river, because he'll check most times. [/ QUOTE ] Cool - so then the river plan is to check behind or fold to a bet? [/ QUOTE ] That would be my plan. EDIT: This brings up another point that I forgot to post first which is part of the reason I think preflop is not necessarily bad is because the button gives you so much leverage in controlling the big street betting, as is true with this line. 
|
|
#62
07-26-2005, 04:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
Suppose we limit the tag to the hands I listed as well as the ones listed by sfer. Ok. Given this range of hands, most flops either hit the hand or provide a strong draw for these holdings (Taking them all together). Your problem is deciphering which particular holding the tag has. You need further information. I think the tags flop bet tells you exactly what you need to know, but for some reason you want to disregard it because you are deceiving yourself. You said yourself that the reason you isolate the tag is because they are predictable, and will release when they do not connect. This is the reason you believe your strategy of isolating the tag works. Fine. Now when the predictable tag bets the flop, calls your raise, and bets the turn I think you have all the information you need. Don't you? I mean how predictable does the tag need to be to get you to release your hand?
|
|
#63
07-26-2005, 04:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Cool - so then the river plan is to check behind or fold to a bet? [/ QUOTE ]That would be my plan. EDIT: This brings up another point that I forgot to post first which is part of the reason I think preflop is not necessarily bad is because the button gives you so much leverage in controlling the big street betting, as is true with this line. [/ QUOTE ] So then how would you compare your line of raising the turn/checking the river to the line suggested (I believe) by ElSapo of just a straight call-down from the flop through river?
|
|
#64
07-26-2005, 04:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Cool - so then the river plan is to check behind or fold to a bet? [/ QUOTE ]That would be my plan. EDIT: This brings up another point that I forgot to post first which is part of the reason I think preflop is not necessarily bad is because the button gives you so much leverage in controlling the big street betting, as is true with this line. [/ QUOTE ] So then how would you compare your line of raising the turn/checking the river to the line suggested (I believe) by ElSapo of just a straight call-down from the flop through river? [/ QUOTE ] I think one can be marginally better but it depends on how straightforwardly he plays postflop. Generally, the trickier and laggier he can get the more I like ElSapo's line since you never get run off the best hand and you preserve your suckout equity. But at the same time, betting a draw on the flop is fairly tricky so I just confused myself.
|
|
#65
07-26-2005, 04:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] why would you do this with a hand that is either behind or way behind the TAG's? [/ QUOTE ] If the table is good I expect KJs/KTs/QJs/QTs/JTs as well as any suited Ace to be in his range. All of these hands will check/fold the flop most times they don't flop a pair/draw. [/ QUOTE ] So, any 2 cards will do here, eh? Interesting.......
|
|
#66
07-26-2005, 04:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
#2 - UTG's stats are 15/7/4 I figured that there would be plenty of commentary on PF play being either fine or horrible but - I've thrown out some hand ranges for a TAG player who limps UTG PF and there hasn't been much commentary on them. My point here is for someone to do a reasonable combination analysis on his hand range - I think it might be closer than we're thinking. [/ QUOTE ] The hand range you gave earlier is way too wide IMO for a 15/7 player who just limped UTG. I play a 22/11 at 2/4 and don't limp half of the stuff you listed earlier in the post. I'm personally not against your attempt to steal with A2o, but I do think you need to find a place to let this hand go postflop after you are clearly behind.
|
|
#67
07-26-2005, 04:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to have a discussion of preflop play try some reading. A2 off is a terrible hand, so that makes the fold button very easy to push. [/ QUOTE ] Are you really talking to me? Because it was my post you replied to, but it doesn't seem like you're talking to me.
|
|
#68
07-26-2005, 04:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] why would you do this with a hand that is either behind or way behind the TAG's? [/ QUOTE ] If the table is good I expect KJs/KTs/QJs/QTs/JTs as well as any suited Ace to be in his range. All of these hands will check/fold the flop most times they don't flop a pair/draw. [/ QUOTE ] So, any 2 cards will do here, eh? Interesting....... [/ QUOTE ] About a year ago I was clearing a bonus at Absolute. A couple of tables were very weak-tight and I would guess less than 1/5 of the hands made it to showdown, less than 1/3 to the turn. JDErickson was at the table although I didn't know it was him and vice versa. I posted a hand the next day and he PM'd me, telling me that my VPIP/PFR were like 35/25 over that session. I started noticing who gave up quickly and then I let them give up. It was fun until they started to catch on, then I left. EDIT: Oh yeah, like every hand was also HU when there was a flop. EDIT EDIT: Where is JDErickson?
|
|
#70
07-26-2005, 04:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So, any 2 cards will do here, eh? Interesting....... [/ QUOTE ] Nooooo, if the blinds call (and at 2-4 they will call a lot) you want to have something to play with. [/ QUOTE ] clearly, but that is not the argument that sfer is making here.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
