Rory's blind defense.

[Schizo]

I didn't want to hijak his thread but he posted this:

[ QUOTE ]
I have 85s in the BB and call a button open raise against a not-too-aggressive player. Flop is 843, two spades and my check-raise gets 3-bet. I decide to bet-fold a non-spade turn and check-fold a spade turn. The turn is an offsuit T. I bet. I get raised. I... call.

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Question #1

I only call w/ 87s here and that is the bottom end. Is calling w/ 85 suited (a 2 gapper) really a good idea?

I ran some poker stoves and while it's only a 2.7% difference I'm not exactly sure how to say one is profitable and one isn't due to postflop complications. You are OOP. Is the the general concensus that this hand is good preflop?

Hand 1: 62.9933 % [ 00.62 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q8s, JTs, J8s, 76s, AKo-A2o, KQo-KTo, QJo-Q9o, JTo-J9o, T9o }
Hand 2: 37.0067 % [ 00.36 00.01 ] { 8c5c }


Hand 1: 60.3183 % [ 00.60 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q8s, JTs, J8s, 76s, AKo-A2o, KQo-KTo, QJo-Q9o, JTo-J9o, T9o }
Hand 2: 39.6817 % [ 00.39 00.01 ] { 87s }

Question #2)

villian raised PF. Are you really ready to lay down top pair to what may be overs?

[rory]

The opponent was sort of manageable postflop because he was not that aggressive, so 85s is an easy hand to play, providing you play it right. Not folding to his turn raise was not playing it right. Against a more aggressive or tricky opponent, 85s is not a very good hand to play out of position but against this guy it was right.

Interesting because it is correct for me to play it against this particular opponent, but not if I am playing poorly. I don't slide around my preflop standards much to adjust for my current level of game.. hmm.

[spydog]

Rory,

I don't understand your lead the turn in this hand. I know you don't want to give any free cards, but when was the last time you saw someone 3-bet on the flop and check behind on the turn in a HU situation? I think bet-folding this turn robs you of the opportunity of improving your hand on the river for the same price as check-calling the turn.

[rory]

Because if I bet the turn I am for sure beat if he raises again, and I can fold. If I check and call the turn I will feel compelled to check and call the river too if it blanks out. Didn't stick to my plan though.

I take free cards all of the time in this situation heads up when I am the button because I know they aren't folding a pair so there is no point in putting any more money in on the turn. The board isn't exactly scary for my 85, so there is no way he can expect me to be folding anything.

I check-call most of the time on the turn against an aggressive player but this guy was fairly passive postflop so I decided to go the bet-fold route. Maybe I need to rethink it. Thanks.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
Because if I bet the turn I am for sure beat if he raises again, and I can fold. If I check and call the turn I will feel compelled to check and call the river too if it blanks out. Didn't stick to my plan though.

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I think I became a better player in HU situations when I started to look for reasons to showdown and quit looking for reasons to fold.

Also, in the hand that you posted, if you have a passive read on that player then you need to check-fold the turn unimproved because passive players do not 3-bet flops without an overpair. If you think they can then you need to commit yourself to showdown as cheaply as possible by check-calling the turn/river.

I can't think of any type of player, barring a very, very specific read, where I would take your line of calling the 3-bet and bet-folding the turn, regardless of the turn card.

[ QUOTE ]
Because if I bet the turn I am for sure beat if he raises again, and I can fold. If I check and call the turn I will feel compelled to check and call the river too if it blanks out. Didn't stick to my plan though.


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yeah, you're definitely behind. but after you lead/get raised, you're getting 8 to 1 to call with 5 clean outs. no?