Comments on all streets appreciated on this suck-out.

tripdad · #1 06-15-2005, 05:23 AM

i thought my opponents really did this to themselves, but i caught some major table talk for it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

BB ($143.85)
UTG ($51.45)
Hero ($136)
UTG+2 ($210.55)
MP1 ($419.7)
MP2 ($423.1)
MP3 ($207.55)
CO ($127)
Button ($194)
SB ($215.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, Hero calls $2, 4 folds, CO raises to $4, Button calls $4, SB (poster) calls $3, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($20) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets $10, BB calls $10, Hero calls $10, CO folds, Button calls $10.

Turn: ($60) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets $30, BB calls $30, Hero calls $30, Button raises to $90, SB calls $171.15 (All-In), BB calls $99.85 (All-In), Hero calls $92 (All-In), Button calls $90 (All-In).

River: ($693) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 4 all-in)

Final Pot: $693

BB was also on a flush draw(diamonds). SB had a set of Tens, and Button had a set of Fives.

cheers!

Publos Nemesis · #2 06-15-2005, 05:28 AM

Your p/f call is fine. You need to raise the flop and see where you are at. Given your play, you can easily call all-in on the turn with the pair + flush draw with everyone else coming along too.

gulebjorn · #3 06-15-2005, 05:37 AM

PF: looks like a judgement call: is table weak enough to limp this without getting raised, or with a lot of callers. From your HH, looks like it is, so the limp/call PF is fine.

Flop: I'm probably raising, since any T, J, Q or K will render your top pair useless and any 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 completes a straight draw or might give someone trips/two pair. With a 3-5 way turn, I think you need to narrow the field. If you count the backdoor flush as 2 outs, you have 7, I don't think that's enough in a 3-5 way pot.

Turn: the only good cards would have been an A or 9, and none fell. With 4 players on that turn, you are now beat. Question is: do you have the odds to call on your nut flush draw? First call is 4-1 with implied odds like mad: very good. Second call: 5-1 but implied odds are gone: still good enough. Buttons calls behind: even better. I'd say this will increase your variance, but it's definitely profitable.

So you were right, they did it to themselves. But I still think you should have raised the flop.

Comments are welcome.

Publos Nemesis · #4 06-15-2005, 05:41 AM

you got priced in. although you caught good, you had to get all in on the turn.

tripdad · #5 06-15-2005, 02:00 PM

i'm just hoping to hit my 2 pair or trips on the turn here cheaply, to be honest. in order for my raise to mean anything, it must be around $40 i think. i don't want to put that much in with a pair of 9's. if it gets raised behind me, i drop this like a rock.

how much are you guys raising here? and why?

cheers!

gulebjorn · #6 06-15-2005, 04:06 PM

Well, you have 5 outs to make two pair/trips. So the odds against you hitting are 42-5 or worse than 8-1. You are getting 3-1 pot odds, so calling to improve is very -EV.

Of course, you have a 17% chance of hitting a four-flush too, but you'll still have to call extra bets to see a river with that. I'm not sure how to calculate it, but I don't think you can just count those 17% as 8 outs or something like that. I've seen 2 outs being counted for a backdoor flush, but I think that's more for an all-in situation on the flop. However, I am pretty sure that the backdoor flush can not make up for the difference between 8-1 and 3-1.

So IMO, your only real options are raising or folding here. I think a raise to $30 = 3/4 of current pot and 3 x original raise would be fine. If you don't wanna put that much in with a pair of 9's, I think you should dump this right there.

Spladle Master · #7 06-15-2005, 04:51 PM

Pre-flop is automatic. Calling the flop is fine given the multiway nature of the pot and the marginal nature of your hand. Raising and folding are probably wrong here. Turn is automatic.

Nice hand.