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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:47 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default Full turn

Live 20/40 Have played about 4 hours with Villain. He's solid and hasn't gotten out of line from EP. I've been playing well, very tight, running good and up a couple of racks.

This hand was interesting because, based on what we've seen of each other, the turn has us all crossed up.

Villain opens UTG, I 3 bet 88, awful player calls 3 cold, folded to Villain who caps. 3 to the flop for a lot of SB's.

Flop 8c 5c 2x. Villain bets, I raise, awful calls 2 more, Villain 3 bets, I cap, awful calls. 3 to the turn for a lot of BB's.

Turn is a red 5. Villain bets, I raise, awful folds, Villain 3 bets.

At this point it's either -
1 - he doesn't think I have 88 because I haven't shown down that type of play yet with a mid pair. He thinks I'd only do it with JJ-AA so he's overplaying AA.
2 - he's hit the jackpot because he knows I figure there's no way he'd open/cap UTG with 55 because he hasn't done something like that yet. But if he thought I had AK, would he?

If I'm ahead, he'll call a 4th bet/river. 2 more bets. If I'm behind I'll call a 5th bet/river. 3 more bets. Win 2 or lose 3. Doesn't that mean just call down?
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:51 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

OMG.
i would not have threebet this preflop and i would go at least 7 bets on the turn here. calling down is an indefensibly terrible play.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:57 PM
sfer sfer is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

[ QUOTE ]
OMG.
i would not have threebet this preflop and i would go at least 7 bets on the turn here. calling down is an indefensibly terrible play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Going 7 bets means you lose.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:03 PM
Garland Garland is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

[ QUOTE ]
He's solid and hasn't gotten out of line from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain opens UTG, I 3 bet 88,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold 88 from here. Your hand is cheese compared to his range of hands, and you have to contend with the rest of the field.

As the hand plays, you ram and jam your boat on the flop and turn. He thinks you're going overboard with KK/QQ vs what's sure to be AA. I don't know when I'd stop, if I'd actually stop. Perhaps 10 bets, maybe...

Garland
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:34 AM
Dazarath Dazarath is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm ahead, he'll call a 4th bet/river. 2 more bets. If I'm behind I'll call a 5th bet/river. 3 more bets. Win 2 or lose 3. Doesn't that mean just call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. If you apply this to every situation where you don't have the nuts, you'd never raise. And then you'd ask yourself, "Why am I a -6 BB/100 player? I always call down when I stand to lose 1 more bet than I can win." The thing is, in every situation, if you calculate it out that way, you'll always stand to win x bets when ahead, and lose x+1 bets when behind. This isn't taking into account the times that your opponent misreads your hand and pays off with a worse hand, or slows down with a better hand. Lastly, if your read is correct, you should be ahead something 99.x% of the time, and you should be pumping the pot.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:21 AM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

Some say go 7 bets on the turn, some say go 10. Wouldn't a solid, tight player, playing very well, be able to figure out you have a full house before he puts in 6 or 9 bets?

Heck, I've seen players of the description you've given fold pocket aces for a 4th bet on the turn. I might just call the turn 3-bet and then raise a benign river card. This is 4 for 3, instead of your 3 for 2. With the board containing a flush draw which he might be putting you on, it just seems he's a lot more likely to have pocket aces than pocket fives.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:42 AM
bambi bambi is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

yeah i would worry about him folding not how many bets, i call his turn three bet and raise the river.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:30 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: Full turn

[ QUOTE ]
Heck, I've seen players of the description you've given fold pocket aces for a 4th bet on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds any big pair for a 4th bet he wouldn't be solid given he's getting 19 to 1 and figures to get two more bets if he spikes a river set (combined with the chance he thinks his big pair beats your big pair - reasonable based on the play so far).

[ QUOTE ]
I might just call the turn 3-bet and then raise a benign river card. This is 4 for 3, instead of your 3 for 2. With the board containing a flush draw which he might be putting you on, it just seems he's a lot more likely to have pocket aces than pocket fives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put in the raises on the turn hoping villian reads mike l. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick
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