Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Medium-Stakes Pot-, No-Limit Hold'em

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:12 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Post your best expert play!

It would be interesting to start a discussion about NLHE "expert play" that may throw off your opponents and add some EV to your poker results. I'm aware that some moves might work at some levels but not at others, some work against certain type of players while against some it wont, so please include the overall context. Maybe you can illustrate your maneuvers by posting hands where you actually tried it out.

I don't regard myself as an expert but I will contribute with a few ideas that it would be interesting to hear your comments about.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:39 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

OK I contribute with one myself.

I know a guy who play 10/20 NLHE online and he says one good move is to induce a bluff on the river from an opponent who has called flop and turn with a probable flush draw against your top pair + top kicker or overpair. When you reach the river you just check hoping him to bet behind and then you just call. If you raise you'd only get a call or a reraise by a stronger slowplyed hand. Reflections?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-18-2005, 01:48 PM
emil3000 emil3000 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

Quite expert and very nonstandard indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

[ QUOTE ]
Quite expert and very nonstandard indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot to contribute.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-18-2005, 02:07 PM
ThePortuguee ThePortuguee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

Seems pretty standard to me. A play I learned recently that's also relatively standard but that a lot of people don't see the value in is the play of overpairs and TPTK on safe boards. Here's an example:

You have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and raise preflop from position, getting two callers.

The flop is: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

This is a good flop for you. It's checked to you and you fire about pot. One fold, one caller. What's your read?

The best read here is probably a hand like
JQ-AJs, maybe QQ, or maybe even some hand like 66-TT who just doesnt think you have it. Of course, 46 is possible, and importantly, so are hands like JJ, 55, and 22.

The turn comes down: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] And you do what?
Most people here would bet. However, a better play is actually to check, imo. Why? Well, you caller has to have a hand like 46 for you to worry about giving a free card, and betting three streets with a single pair isn't usually a good idea. You want to get two solid bets out of your opponent. If you fire here again, and he raises, you have to strongly consider the possibility that he has 55 or JJ, in which case you're stuck calling not just this bet, but another big on on river. By checking you protect yourself not just from slow-played sets but also from weird two pair type monsters.

Also, with your turn check, on the river your villain might decide to get frisky and make a reasonable bet with a J, a pocket pair that's missed the board, or just some sort of weird bluff, thinking you dont have the goods when you check the turn. You can safely call that bet, and the money you lose to a set or two pair in this situation is much less than if you inflated pot by firing turn.

Finally, a hand like JT or 77 is goign to be much more likely to call a solid river bet then they would be to call your second barrel on the turn, since you showed weakness on the turn by checking. Now they might think you're just making a desperation buy attempt on river with AQ or AK.

The idea, here, is that your turn check allows you to get more value from marginal hands, while at the same time keeping the pot manageable with a hard hand to play postflop, and finally allowing you to lose the least money from flopped monsters like sets or two pair.

You like?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-18-2005, 02:12 PM
emil3000 emil3000 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quite expert and very nonstandard indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot to contribute.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe. I don't have any expert plays since I suck.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-18-2005, 02:17 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

[ QUOTE ]
You like?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain is aggressive and plays a wide range of hands, yes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:05 PM
FlyingStart FlyingStart is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 50
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

This is pretty much a standard 2p2 line as far as I know..

I would like to hear a little more about this line from a successful LAG or a TAG who likes to fire two bullets tho. The reason this type of line can sometimes can be bad IMO is if you are playing against a thinking player who is observant of the action and you have played a decent number of hands against him. He will then soon realize that you only bet the turn with two pair or better. The problem with this is if you decide to fire a second bullett with AK or use a turn K as a scarecard and fire a second bullett with something like AQ your opponent knows you are either bluffing or you have a big hand.. Big hands are not common so he may decide to look you up with a single pair...

Is this overthinking at medium stakes or does anyone have thoughts/practice with this "problem"?

A play I sometimes make that doesn't seem like the standard on 2p2 is to bet into the PFR with air after I called in the BB with a SC or high cards. I think this helps balancing your play. You will often pick up the pot and you will be harder to read.
A guy who only bets into the PFR with better than onepair hands shouldn't get alot of action from good players
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:16 PM
ThePortuguee ThePortuguee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 83
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

You cant use any play every time agianst thinking players, you're correct abotu that, but I think this is an underused and solid line. and what I especialyl like about it is that you can play monsters the same way. Against a LAG or a TAG, if you flop top set, bet flop, and check turn behind, now when your opponent decides to fire a river bet at you, you can make a solid raise, and if hes made you for air of just an overpair hes going to have to call with hands like two pair and someimtes even to pair. That wouldnt be a standard line, but it becomes more effective when you mix the two instead of three-three street betting line into yoru play. Make sense? Barely coherent i know.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:47 PM
FlyingStart FlyingStart is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 50
Default Re: Post your best expert play!

Yes, I got you on the don't-use-same-line-against-thinking-player-every-time.

But I don't aggree that it's good mixing up the check behind turn with TPTK with a line you would take with a monster.. You can't stack a guy if you keep the pot small... With one pair you want a medium pot, with a monster you don't. I think it is better to bet more frequently on the turn (with lesser hands) than to check monsters (this is the principle behind LAG play and is what makes them get paid off. I.e a LAG would never check behind a monster..). The guy I was playing against would have to be a complete nit if I should check behind with a monster

edit: Btw, your monster line is not consistent with your TPTK line because you would never raise the river with that.. Also a river raise after a turn checkbehind screems strengt and I dont't think one pair is paying that of more often than a turn + river bet
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.