Hellmuthian Laydown Contemplated

tiger_style · #1 07-01-2005, 05:21 AM

MinRaiser, MinRaiser, oh why do you hate me so?

Oh screw it, I'm all in.

Yes, this was my first hand at the table.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

SB (MinRaiser) ($640.9)
BB ($600.7)
UTG ($585)
MP ($540.6)
Hero ($600)
Button ($870.82)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB (MinRaiser) posts a blind of $3. Hero posts a blind of $6.
UTG calls $6, MP calls $6, Hero checks, Button calls $6, SB(MinRaiser) raises to $12, BB calls $6, UTG calls $6, MP calls $6, Hero calls $6, Button calls $6.

Flop: ($72) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
MinRaiser checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $55, Button calls $55, MinRaiser raises to $110, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds, Hero calls $533 (All-In), Button folds, MinRaiser calls $478.

Turn: ($1303) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($1303) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $1303

fuzzbox · #2 07-01-2005, 05:30 AM

He minraised pf and check-minraised that flop ? I say a set.
Why not call ... and try to take button along for the ride ? you have plenty of outs, and you might get away if the board pairs.

Check-minraisers dont fold when you push the flop, and he likley has a set.

tiger_style · #3 07-01-2005, 06:09 AM

i have no idea what outs the button might be dominating

thus the dilemna, and why i like pushing

how often is MinRaiser not holding a set?

fuzzbox · #4 07-01-2005, 06:17 AM

Yeah - you are right - I probably push too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].
But he still probably has a set. Minraise is often medium pair (although I'm seeing Axs and any old suited broadways more and more). Check-minraise the flop after the first minraise is very likely to be a set.

If that action comes from a short-stack then he could have AA/KK, but from a full stack - I read set.

Still - I play bad - so I probably push too.

savman · #5 07-01-2005, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
MinRaiser, MinRaiser, oh why do you hate me so?

Oh screw it, I'm all in.

Yes, this was my first hand at the table.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

SB (MinRaiser) ($640.9)
BB ($600.7)
UTG ($585)
MP ($540.6)
Hero ($600)
Button ($870.82)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB (MinRaiser) posts a blind of $3. Hero posts a blind of $6.
UTG calls $6, MP calls $6, Hero checks, Button calls $6, SB(MinRaiser) raises to $12, BB calls $6, UTG calls $6, MP calls $6, Hero calls $6, Button calls $6.

Flop: ($72) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
MinRaiser checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $55, Button calls $55, MinRaiser raises to $110, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds, Hero calls $533 (All-In), Button folds, MinRaiser calls $478.

Turn: ($1303) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($1303) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $1303

[/ QUOTE ]

i hate minraisers, and there is no way i am not pushing here. I agree with previous poster....minraise used to mean medium pair. Now there are a certain breed of donkey who love to minraise everyother hand with complete garbage (j 5 off..etc)then either minraise the flop or check minraise...i dont think you are necessarily against a set here and if u are you have outs. Also, you let the minraiser know you are not to be effed with go minraise someone else. Maybe thats just a personal thing with me but i hate minraisers.

SpineyFish · #6 07-01-2005, 12:01 PM

Here's an outside of the box play...

How about a min-three-bet? He's confusing you with his min-raises. Give him a taste of his own medicine. If he pushes back you can lay down knowing you're beat. If he min-raises again you have pot odds to call. The three-bet will most likely get the button out, so you aren't worried about the outs being dominated anymore.

It seems he isn't on a bluff since he called your all-in, but if he does have a set and calls and the board pairs you can still get away from your hand. Also, he might think he'll be able to check raise you again on the turn and give you a free card inadvertently.

What you lose with a three-bet min-raise is the fold equity. Although I'm not sure if you ever had any here. Did he contemplate the all-in? or instacall?

Leptyne · #7 07-01-2005, 12:52 PM

If a minraise bothers you read Zen and the Art of Poker. Don't let an annoyance influence your decision. Actually I think your play is fine. The player that erred IMHO was the SB. If he has a big hand he should have led with it. As it is I can't tell if the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bailed him out. Poor play on his part either way. Always good to attack weak plays like you did. Hope you stacked him.

AZK · #8 07-01-2005, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about a min-three-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, puts too much of your stack in when just calls and the turn is a brick....

tiger_style · #9 07-01-2005, 05:36 PM

slowrolled by TT

grrrrrrrrr

Big_Jim · #10 07-01-2005, 05:53 PM

I don't get it, where was the laydown comtemplated?