Playing marginal hands in late position with multiple players posting

[lonn19]

Playing O8 1/2 on Party last night. Get dealt 9h 9c 4c 2h on the button. I see that in addition to the two blinds, three other people had to post either because they were new or had been sitting out. Besides them, one other player calls by the time it gets to me. I like my hand against random hands so I call after considering the pot odds and the fact Im on the button. The flop comes Q 9 2 rainbow. Couldn't have been much better. I actually made my set. The SB bets and everyone calls up to me. I raise and everyone calls my raise. No one reraised so i rule out anyone having trip queens. Turn is an ace, putting a second spade on the board. It gets checked to me. I bet and just two people call. River is Jc. Again it is checked to me, I bet and the two players both fold. I win without showing. Obviously they were on a draw. Well played or did I just luck out? Do you guys take into consideration players besides the SB and BB posting blinds when deciding to play a hand from late position?

[sy_or_bust]

Don't get into the habit of playing trash like 9942. You can loosen up in LP, but you want to do it with good scooping hands, not weak two-way junk. I'd consider taking a shot with KTT9, KQJ9, or even JJTT, but the weak-low/weak-high hands are going to kill you when you don't flop perfect - and you don't flop perfect enough to hold a profit.

[bodie]

"Well played or did I just luck out?"

In my opinion, you lucked out, but you also played it well after the flop. However, looking at the hand:

a) it was a very weak starting hand. The only reason I would play that hand under any conditions is if I was the BB and the pot is unraised, or if there's a hefty jackpot available that pays for quad 9's beaten.
b) the flop is good for you, I think you played it well, there was nothing more that you could do but raise there. Everyone calls so you still don't know what they're after. And realize that your meager low possibility has been counterfeited by the flopped "2".
c) The turn is another overcard and a spade flush possibility, and hopes for a low, again you played it well - there are still 2 callers, but you've shown yourself as strong all through the hand.
d) the river brings a straight possibility, but the low is gone - and both players fold to your bet. I wonder if they were going for low..or the spade flush.
e) I think when the limits are this low, it's a little harder to see things as clearly as far as players staying in until the river chasing after a hand

[lonn19]

I know it was a weak hand, and I will definitely not get into a habit of playing cards like that(even on the button). But I thought I'd take a shot considering the additional 3 guys who posted a blind.

[FeliciaLee]

I agree with the other replies that this is just too weak to play even with all of the dead money in the pot.

You flop a dream and you still don't know where you are. You pretty much have to play the entire hand blind. Being lost in a hand isn't the best way to make money in LO8. This could easily have gone sour for you in many ways.

Yes, I definitely play more hands when there are many players posting at a table. But I don't play the very worst hands, even on the button. While we can win a pot with a few extra blinds, we can also lose a big pot that we shouldn't have been involved in, in the first place.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Wintermute]

If I choose to play in this situation, I'm playing it for a preflop raise.

[DOMIT]

[ QUOTE ]
You flop a dream and you still don't know where you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to beat a dead a horse.. but this is why playing pairs like 99 sucks so badly. You never really have the nuts.

If the board is 9-high, it brings a low and you're mostly likely splitting the pot--unless someone makes a low straight, which will happen often enough.

Should the board come as it did without a low draw, you don't have the nuts because there's at least one overcard.

Low limit O8, you want to play the nuts; you'll usually not have them playing medium to low pairs. (Should you have something like A22x, definitely playable..and should you end up flopping trip ducks..you have to play carefully. Many a time I've wished I just mucked my set on the flop.)

[Buzz]

Lonn - I haven't read the other replies yet. I'll read them when I'm through responding.

[ QUOTE ]
Get dealt 9h 9c 4c 2h on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a marginal or even sub-marginal hand, but I'd generally play it for one small bet from the button under the circumstances you have stipulated.

[ QUOTE ]
The flop comes Q 9 2 rainbow. Couldn't have been much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes it could! The nine on the flop is good for you, but the queen and the deuce are not. (1) The queen, should the another queen appear on the turn or river, may make a better full house for an opponent than you will have - and you'll be trapped. (2) You'd love to have the board pair beneath your set of nines, but the deuce already in your hand reduces that possibility. (3) The deuce on the flop squelches any chance of low for you.

But O.K., you flopped middle set with a rainbow flop and low is not likely. You're probably ahead immediately after the flop. It's unlikely (about one chance in ten) one of your six opponents has flopped a set of queens. But in addition to QQXY, someone could have Q9XY or Q2XY - or a wrap-around like AKJT or KJTY. And at this limit, you probably have opponents who will chase a one-low-card flop looking for runner-runner low.

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets and everyone calls up to me. I raise and everyone calls my raise. No one reraised so i rule out anyone having trip queens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reasonable. Looks good thus far. I like your raise here.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is an ace, putting a second spade on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a good card for you.

Your opponents will generally like to play hands with an ace (or a pair of aces), and they will also favor wheel cards, but they will also like to play high cards. Most opponents would play JTXY after this flop, maybe as KJTY. You don't want to see a spade or king, jack, or ten on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
It gets checked to me. I bet and just two people call.

[/ QUOTE ]

O.K. I like your bet here even though the turn card does not help you as much as it may have helped an opponent.

[ QUOTE ]
River is Jc. Again it is checked to me, I bet and the two players both fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like your bet here if you're up against decent opponents because I don't think anybody calls who can't beat you. This is a place for somebody to plan a check-raise against you. In other words, somebody who made a straight on the river, if expecting you to fold to a bet but bet to a check, will check into you here (and then will raise when you, as expected, bet).

[ QUOTE ]
Well played or did I just luck out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played until the last betting round.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys take into consideration players besides the SB and BB posting blinds when deciding to play a hand from late position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends. Generally not much. Maybe I should.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
a) it was a very weak starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bodie - Weak, but maybe not "very" weak. (I guess it's all relative).

Perhaps interestingly, 2499d actually simulates better than some pure high hands you might generally like to play. For example, it actually simulates a bit better than TTJKn, TTQKn, TJJKn, or TJQKn. But I'll admit it's probably not as easy to play (or fold) as any of those four rainbow hands.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm certainly not advising you (or anybody) to play it. It's just that I don't think of it as "very" weak.

What's "very" weak? In my humble opinion 278Qn is an example of a very weak hand. (And 222Qn is obviously even weaker).

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone calls so you still don't know what they're after.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you give them any credit, they're all on some sort of draw. They shouldn't be drawing purely for low after this one-low-card flop, but they might be.

You'd probably voluntarily see the flop with A3TJs or KQJTs, and you'd still be hanging around after this flop. Since there were several blind posters and no pre-flop raise, it's very difficult to tell what they might be holding. Could be some sort of uncoordinated hand that caught a piece of the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if they were going for low..or the spade flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe both. Whatever it was they missed.
And nobody turned out to have the right cards (king-ten-X-Y or ten-eight-X-Y) for the straight.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd consider taking a shot with KTT9, KQJ9, or even JJTT

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Sy - You don't mention suitedness which, in my humble opinion, is very, very important.

If these are all non-suited starting hands (rainbows), JJTTn is easily the best of them (rather than the least), in my humble opinion.

Buzz