Bubble questions.....

Fairly common scenario with 4 left and blinds 75/150:

Player #1: 4000 chips

Player #2: 1500

Player #3: 800

Player #4: 1700

in that order.

I'm wondering about the strategy here.

Pretty sure that #1, #2 and #3 should be pushing any time it gets folded to them in the SB (with any 2 cards). #4 is kinda screwed here, since he doesn't want to be pushing into the big stack without quality cards.

Should #2 be pushing on the Button a lot?

Should the medium stacks be tighter than normal waiting for shortie to bust out?

What about calling standards for the medium stacks? Should they avoid calling all ins from anyone but shortie without really premium hands? What about small pocket pairs?

I was #2 recently and pushed on the button with A6o. #4 called with QJo.

I think the call was truly stupid, as he had a marginal hand and was setting himself up to get shortstacked.

What about my push? Should I have been tighter with the shortstack needing to make a move soon?

Thanks

[bluefeet]

I'm assuming bigstack folded UTG.

I gave what might be reasonable ranges to the blinds (not saying they are correct calling ranges mind you):

shortie SB: 22+,A9s+,AT+,KQ+
mid BB: 44+,AJs+,AQ+

With these ranges, you're pushing 66+,AJo+,ATs+,KQs. Your A6o is marginal... +.2

If BB has a notion our range might be 44+,A2+,KJs+,KQ+, he still can't call w/o TT+,AKo,AQs+.

In fact, if we tell him, we're pushing the next hand w/ any two, he still can't call without 66+,A9o+,A7s+,KQo,KTs+.

He obviously made a horrendous call.

Back to your push. If we give BB any credit here, assigning him the calling range he SHOULD consider, your A6o becomes a very clear push. Even giving him TT+,AQs+,AKo, we get to push 22+,A2+,K6o+,K2s+,Q8o+,Q2s+,J9o+,J5s+,T9o,T6s+,96s +,86s+,75s+,65s,54s

Decent push. Bad call of course.

[clevernapkin]

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Should #2 be pushing on the Button a lot?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a pretty ambiguous question. Do you have any sort of read on this guy? If you do, then you should know what to do. As a side note, if this guy's tight I would not recommend pushing with 10x BB, as a tight player is likely to fold to a 3x BB raise as he is a push. Therefore you may attempt to steal blinds without risking your tournament life.


[ QUOTE ]
Should the medium stacks be tighter than normal waiting for shortie to bust out?

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There's typically two ways to play on the bubble. Some advocate an aggressive strategy, to try and build up chips in order to increase the chances in coming in first. The other side argues that the risk of aggresiveness may cause you to bust out on the bubble, which is more -EV than it would be to try and come in first. I think that either way is acceptable, however one style may be preferable under certain circumstances.

[ QUOTE ]

What about calling standards for the medium stacks? Should they avoid calling all ins from anyone but shortie without really premium hands? What about small pocket pairs?


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If I were a medium stack in this situation, I would generally try to avoid calling all-in without a premium hand. The reason for this is that the only way my hand would win is to have the best hand at SD. Thus, you generally you need a much better hand to call with than to raise with. This is otherwise known as Gap Concept

[ QUOTE ]
I was #2 recently and pushed on the button with A6o. #4 called with QJo.

I think the call was truly stupid, as he had a marginal hand and was setting himself up to get shortstacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Player 4 may have made a mistake by calling, however I would like to point out the fact that you have a fairly healthy stack. In PP SNG's (which I'm going to assume since the chip stacks add up to 8k), 10x BB is no reason for you to be desperate here. By pushing, you risk your tournament life in order to gain a relatively small amount of chips, whereas if you are called the best you can hope for is to be a 60/40 favorite. Thus, although player 4 made a mistake by calling, I believe that this type of play is bound to make you lose money than it will to gain it.

Anyway I hope I've answered your questions well enough for you to understand some more about bubble play.


**edit: sorry I accidentally said FE instead of Gap concept, my mistake.
-clevernapkin

[clevernapkin]

[ QUOTE ]


Back to your push. If we give BB any credit here, assigning him the calling range he SHOULD consider, your A6o becomes a very clear push. Even giving him TT+,AQs+,AKo, we get to push 22+,A2+,K6o+,K2s+,Q8o+,Q2s+,J9o+,J5s+,T9o,T6s+,96s +,86s+,75s+,65s,54s

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This idea makes sense, however is it acceptable to give an opponent a calling range which you personally find reasonable? I think the player should put a range of hands that his opponent is likely to call with based upon his style. If he's likely to call with much more variety of hands, then I believe this push is -EV, as he is putting himself in a marginal position on the bubble when he is not in a very desperate situation.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Back to your push. If we give BB any credit here, assigning him the calling range he SHOULD consider, your A6o becomes a very clear push. Even giving him TT+,AQs+,AKo, we get to push 22+,A2+,K6o+,K2s+,Q8o+,Q2s+,J9o+,J5s+,T9o,T6s+,96s +,86s+,75s+,65s,54s

[/ QUOTE ]

This idea makes sense, however is it acceptable to give an opponent a calling range which you personally find reasonable? I think the player should put a range of hands that his opponent is likely to call with based upon his style. If he's likely to call with much more variety of hands, then I believe this push is -EV, as he is putting himself in a marginal position on the bubble when he is not in a very desperate situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly. That was kind of the point of some of the scenarios. I DID make a leap in my conclusion assigning what I felt were 'reasonable' -- may not have been the case of course.

Thanks for your answers

My target in pushing was actually shortie in the SB, as he'd pushed and taken the blinds the last 2 times it was folded to him.

I was trying to keep shortie from building his chipstack, and thought that the BB would be very unlikely to call without a truly outstanding hand.