Stats, Downswings, and Whatnot

[MrWookie47]

In the last couple days, this forum has seen quite a rash of stats posts and downswing posts. Now, I'm not pointing fingers or blaming people, and PBob's post even generated some decent discussion (and fat chick jokes). However, these sorts of posts are typically of minimal strategic value compared to the various hand posts and the like that get posted here everyday. So, what do you guys want me (and the other mods here, presumably) with them? As a rule, I'm shipping downswing posts to BBV as soon as I catch them, unless they've already sparked some good discussion. Anyone disagree with this?

Stats posts walk a finer line, though. There was talk in MHSH about shipping stats posts to BBV, but I'm not sure I agree with this. You guys may, though, so I'll definitely hear your opinions. Another solution that has enjoyed some success over in Micro is the designated stats thread. This puts at most one stats post on the front page at a given time, and it creates a one stop shop for some people to hopefully get their stats questions answered preemptively. Alternatively, we can just let every stats post have it's day in the sun, and I do nothing.

What do you guys think? Let me know what I should be doing (if anything) with these sorts of posts, in general anyway. There'll be exceptions to pretty much every rule.

[POKhER]

Create a dedicated stat post with a few links to any Stat FAQS and whatever else.

Sticky it too as gregs stat post often went to the 5th page, so MR-NewToForum posted without knowing it exsisted.

Downswing posts - Well if they have content let them stay, otherwise ship to BBV. By content i mean interesting discussions such as how partys rake increase may caused it etc.

Just my 2 cents [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] As alot of guys have started 6max (Me included) its nice to have downswing posts here and whatever else in these early stages(Im sure you noticed the influx of 6maxer's) whilst we all "Settle down".

Cheers.

[jba]

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I'm not pointing fingers or blaming people, and PBob's post even generated some decent discussion, awesome drunk mod posts, (and fat chick jokes)

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FYP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I would love to see the stats/downswings posts killed altogether. I don't really even think a dedicated stats post is all that worthwhile, there have been plenty of stats collection posts that should give people a good idea of what is standard. if you want to know if your stats don't match well, look for these posts or just past stats posts.

much more worthwhile than comparing stats is posting hands or polls with specific information, for example:

two LPP limpers and a tight BB and you are in the SB with _____, what do you do?


downswing posts are basically inexcusable IMHO and have no business in a strategy forum. They should at least be a thinly veiled hand post a la "this guy just check/raised me on the turn and I know I have the seconds nuts but I'm down 2302 bbs over the last 15 hands so I'm fraking out, this is an easy call down right?"


general downswing variance posts have a home now.


not directed at anyone in particular, just giving my $0.02 on improving the forum

[Guruman]

I think the shorthanded forums do not have nearly enough stat discussion in general. In the full ring circles, optimal stats are pretty well defined in most preflop and postflop situations.

With SH, that is not nearly the case.

I understand that a lot of pre and postflop play is dictated by reads, but the fact remains that lots of people have played anywhere from a 30/20 to a 22/12 style with varying degrees of success.

The best players in the world will make the right default plays even without reads, and then adjust those plays as the sessions go on.

IMO it would be a shame to stifle the discussions of what a player's stats should look like when employing those default plays.

Also, I think that optimal stats vary greatly as you add or subtract even one player. If anything, this means that shorthanded stats must be further qualified and scrutinized when being discussed. This type of discussion has not even begun to occur here yet.

[scotty34]

I think some stats posts can generate some very good discussion, however, most are utterly useless. I don't mind the ocassional one, as long as you can tell it will have good content. A 15K downswing stats post should be moved to BBV.

If you saw the 196K stats post in HUSH before the split by the relative lurker though, that definetly had some good value. Use your judgement to what will have worthwhile content - lock or move anything else.

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I think the shorthanded forums do not have nearly enough stat discussion in general. In the full ring circles, optimal stats are pretty well defined in most preflop and postflop situations.

With SH, that is not nearly the case.

I understand that a lot of pre and postflop play is dictated by reads, but the fact remains that lots of people have played anywhere from a 30/20 to a 22/12 style with varying degrees of success.

The best players in the world will make the right default plays even without reads, and then adjust those plays as the sessions go on.

IMO it would be a shame to stifle the discussions of what a player's stats should look like when employing those default plays.

Also, I think that optimal stats vary greatly as you add or subtract even one player. If anything, this means that shorthanded stats must be further qualified and scrutinized when being discussed. This type of discussion has not even begun to occur here yet.

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30/20 isnt even Laggy in the highest games. I would say a normal line up is 30/20,60/45,50/30,35/25,40/30..

This is purely empirical conjecture, but it seems like 90% of stats posts are in fact downswing posts that also include stats. With the appropriate information in a sticky FAQ, there should be no need for someone to wonder what the "right" stats are.

I think it would be an interesting experiment to start a "30 days without stats" challenge - no looking at your PT stats (reviewing hands is OK though), no using GT+ or PAHUD. Just your own reads and analysis at the tables, coupled with hand posting and replying here.

I've been without PAHUD since Josh added piracy protection that breaks it in Virtual PC, and I can't say I've missed it.

[jba]

Ignignokt,

how many tables and what level do you play?

my biggest concern with not using a HUD would be table selection.

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how many tables and what level do you play?

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I play 3/6, usually two tables at a time. (And as of this weekend, 4/8 live - if I can figure out a way to multitable that, I'll let you know.)

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my biggest concern with not using a HUD would be table selection.

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I watch, and even sit in for an orbit or three to get reads. My time is pretty valuable, and the time it would take me to properly datamine before sitting in is time wasted.

I play a lot at sites that are buddy-listable, and I find that very valuable for quickly finding a game with at least one fish.

[MrWookie47]

After your first adventure at the Muck, you're making a go of it?

Pokher - If I make a designated stats post, it can't be a sticky. Unfortunately, 2+2 rules dictate that all stickies must be locked. That would kind of defeat the purpose of the post, wouldn't it?

jba - I agree that many stats consolidation spots are out there, but the fact of the matter is, people want to post their stats. We're going to get them no matter what we do.

Are there any other opinions on a designated stats post?

It looks like I'll continue being vigilant about moving brags and rants to the appropriate area.