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  #1  
Old 11-04-2005, 01:30 PM
Fianchetto Fianchetto is offline
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Default Correct Ruling?

Mid limit B&M Full game.

I open raise from MP, folded to the BB who calls. We're heads up. Dealer scoops the bets into the middle of the table and prepares to deal the flop when the CO says "Hey, I said I got 3-cards! It's a misdeal", he didn't have them anymore, he had mucked them apparently.

Then the button chimes in, "Yeah, I only got dealt one card, I never got a second card." He also has no cards at this point.

Presumably the CO got dealt the button's second card, I don't think they are lying about this. However neither of them has any cards now.

As I was raising, I did hear CO mumbling something to dealer, but at no point did the dealer stop or say anything until the CO spoke up again after all preflop betting was completed. Dealer is now trying to tell him if he had 3-cards its just a dead hand anyway, he says "no", and wants a decision from the floor.

Eight other players have acted on their hand, two players want a misdeal declared but neither of them has a hand, and it appeared to me that they had mucked in turn.

What do you think is the correct ruling in this situation?

Results to follow. Thanks.

Additional information: I opened with a marginal hand (K9s), but I'm almost certain it is better than the BB's hand who is a very loose player.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2005, 01:45 PM
TakeMeToTheRiver TakeMeToTheRiver is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

From Roberts Rules:

[ QUOTE ]
Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2005, 03:06 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

Action stands. Put out the flop.
And the CO & Button get the ACjr treatment for waiting so long.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2005, 03:18 PM
tubalkain tubalkain is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

[ QUOTE ]
Action stands. Put out the flop.
And the CO & Button get the ACjr treatment for waiting so long.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:10 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

Let's see...

Two players

who have already mucked

and spoke up way after the fact

who have no cards

and no stake in the pot

all of a sudden speak up

and claim one of them was dealt three cards, the other one

but this wasn't significant enough (to them) to bring up before they both mucked their hands

to a raise

which was called by the BB after they already mucked

sounds like...

A BUNCH OF BULL PUCKY

First off, as a standard procedure, you should kick both of these morons in the nuts. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] That should go without saying tho... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Then, because they didn't speak up, and there's already been what amounts to "significant action," the hand should stand as is.

Your additional information is totally irrelevant. The hand plays out. AFTER the nut kicking is completed.

al
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:16 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

[ QUOTE ]
Action stands. Put out the flop.
And the CO & Button get the ACjr treatment for waiting so long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the goot word mate.

But the fact of the matter is, I'm no prophet. I'm just someone who's willing to have slightly sore toes in the name of what really needs to get done these days.

al

p.s. special thanks to Eric Cartman for making all this possible [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2005, 05:09 PM
bigfishead bigfishead is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

Just to interject something thats almost relevent. Should a dealer call "time" (prior to any actions) when he has been informed by the 3card-1card guys, nothing matters after such "time" is called. No "actions" are actions to this point.

I say this because sometimes a situation arises where there will be a shot taker who "declares" a misdeal because a dealer has called time when whatever occurred does not in fact normally result in a misdeal. Just because a dumb-ass player says it's a misdeal does not mean it is. Hold on to your hands, wait for things to get cleared up when the dealer or in fact even if a player blurts out "time" as he's trying to get the attn of dealer to point out a potential problem.

Then kick the shot-taker in the nutz.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2005, 05:53 PM
Fianchetto Fianchetto is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

Thanks Al, I agree with everything in your post....but

The one thing is that the CO is claiming he did say something before the action started. Whether the dealer didn't hear him, or ignored him, I don't know. But he is adamantly claiming that he notified the dealer before the action got to him.

That's when I asked him, "Where are your cards?", "Why did you fold then?", I didn't get an answer.

When the floor is called over and the dealer explains the situation, she acknowledges that, yes, the CO did say something early in the preflop round, but basically she didn't decipher it or do anything about it until after preflop betting was complete.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2005, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

[ QUOTE ]
The one thing is that the CO is claiming he did say something before the action started. Whether the dealer didn't hear him, or ignored him, I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a players responsibility to make himself heard and undertsood by the dealer, mumbling underyour breath, whispering, telling the guy next to you, wiggling your finger etc. Are not sufficient.

Way to often players think its enough that they "say something" without any concern for whether or not they can be heard or understood (this is a significant problem with many non-native english speakers.) But a player who has trouble verbally communicating can get still get a dealers attention pretty easily if they make an effort.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2005, 07:27 PM
AngusThermopyle AngusThermopyle is offline
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Default Re: Correct Ruling?

[ QUOTE ]

When the floor is called over and the dealer explains the situation,....

[/ QUOTE ]

And the ruling was? And the name of the cardroom?
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