Hellmuth's AK hand

[Blindcurve]

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This should probably be a WPT forum discussion, but . . .

I can't believe that guy didn't beat the **** out of Helmuth after his flopped Broadway got outdrawn and Helmuth starts talking about it not being a bad beat.

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Lord knows he was big enough to do so.

-D.

[Lloyd]

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Lloyd: What do you mean WPT discussion forum? Is that a joke because their boards suck? I've never been to them.

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MTT is a strategy board. Posts should be along those lines. Soss posted a somewhat strategy-related question. I helped it go off into gossip which rightfully belongs in the WPT forum.

[schwza]

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SossMan: Why is that a good example of why you should reraise when deep stacked? I also don't know who you meant to raise, and why? Please clarify.

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two ways to approach this:

- corpse could have reraised with 75s and moved hellmuth off a lot of boards (such as A44Q)

- if hellmuth did not read corpse as a corpse - the kind of guy who might reraise 75s - then corpse gets paid off on times when he does have AA against AK and an A flops (and a lot more).

[John Bedtelyon]

Easy lay down, sure cause I can see both hands.

I think this post is along the lines of the main reason you don't post results in a normal hand thread, it DEFINITELY biases the replys.

Just my thought...

Also, Phil's response to the fact that it isn't an outdraw was that the nines were winning preflop, so it was an outrdraw to get outdrawn again, which happens a lot. So it's a "terrible way to lose" not an outdraw, as Phil put it.

I have no big thoughts on the hand being discussed except I think it was awful for the guy to show his aces, he should have lied and said it was jacks or tens, that'll get phil's heart pumping [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JMB

[Dave D]

Like someone else said, this hand was all about the situation/being there/playing the player. Though I still give Phil a lot of credit for laying down here.

The only thing I thought of was the corpse's bet was really big. 10k is a huge overbet there, I guess that would look a little funny, but then again a good player would use the reverse, reverse psychology there and figure out what's up.

[SossMan]

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Like someone else said, this hand was all about the situation/being there/playing the player. Though I still give Phil a lot of credit for laying down here.

The only thing I thought of was the corpse's bet was really big. 10k is a huge overbet there, I guess that would look a little funny, but then again a good player would use the reverse, reverse psychology there and figure out what's up.

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i totally give phil credit for figuring it out...he's just very lucky that:

A) he checked in the dark
B) the flop was such that the other guy could check behind
(i.e. it wasn't As8c9c with about 9 billion draws for both of them to 'protect')
C) the Q came on the turn to eliminate about half of the hands that phil was beating on the flop
D) this particular player got the AA, not someone who had shown more aggression vs. him

Still a very nice appraisal of the situation, but it wasn't the laydown that one would think it would be if given out of context and certainly one that an educated player would be able to figure out if they took their time.

[SossMan]

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SossMan: Why is that a good example of why you should reraise when deep stacked? I also don't know who you meant to raise, and why? Please clarify.

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if I reraise one time in four hours, what are the chances that I have AJ?
You become especially easy to play against, especially if you are the type of player that plays AA on a 589 board like it's the nuts.

[PokerAmateur4]

Bingo I get the reraise deal now. Very wise.

[SumZero]

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what does everyone think of his "check in the dark" was a deliberate strategy to play "small ball" on day 1?

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I've occasionally used the check in the dark strategy against weaker players when I'm OOP. I think it allows you to neutralize some part of the penalty for being OOP and often does lead to more cautious and passive play by the weaker players.

[tdomeski]

Whenever a 150 year old guy bets 10K into a 6K pot with a board of A A 4 Q after a 3 bet pre flop and DOESN'T DIE IN THE PROCESS, I fold.