Hellmuth's AK hand

SossMan · #1 10-18-2005, 10:05 PM

Without the context, this looks like some amazing read and world class laydown...and I do have to admit that not losing a dime w/ AK postflop when you flop an ace on a rainbow board isn't the easiest thing in the world, but in context, this really is pretty easy.

Blinds 250-500 (prob w/ antes of 50, i'm guessing).

Hellmuth opens from what looks like EP w/ AK.

Seemingly tight 150 year old Italian guy perks up and min-reraises to 3k total. I'm just guessing, but I'm sure that this is the first time since the carter administration that this guy has reraised preflop. AND HE'S RERAISING PHIL FREAKING HELLMUTH!!

Hellmuth calls.

Pot is 6k plus antes. Call it 6500.

Phil checks in the dark.
Flop is A44.
Corpse coffeehouses and checks behind.

Turn is the Q (saving hellmuth's tournament)

Phil checks and folds to the guy's 10k bet.

So, if he puts him on a relatively wide preflop raising range of AA-JJ, AK, AQ, he is now beating exactly two of these hands (KK/JJ). I'm sure that the guy's check behind on the flop, overbet the turn line doesn't really jive well with KK/JJ, so he either is tied or well behind.

That's about as standard as it gets as far as laying down TPTK w/ deep stacks. That also indicates why you should be reraising with more hands than the nuts when deep.

ansky451 · #2 10-18-2005, 10:10 PM

I agree. Thought after his dark check, and the Q turn, this was easy.

I wonder what happens if Italian guy bets flop...

MrBrightside · #3 10-18-2005, 10:17 PM

what does everyone think of his "check in the dark" was a deliberate strategy to play "small ball" on day 1?

KingDan · #4 10-18-2005, 10:20 PM

I think the guy's shrug and kind of oh I may as well bet attitude had a big part to do with it.

He bets the flop he wins a huge pot there.

Edit : still a tough laydown.

Lloyd · #5 10-18-2005, 10:26 PM

Given he didn't re-raise with QQ, and his SOOOO obvious physical tells, it seems so easy.

I'm a little behind (on Tivo) but I can't believe they haven't talked about Paul Magriel yet.

Lloyd · #6 10-18-2005, 10:33 PM

This should probably be a WPT forum discussion, but . . .

I can't believe that guy didn't beat the **** out of Helmuth after his flopped Broadway got outdrawn and Helmuth starts talking about it not being a bad beat.

graydot · #7 10-18-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what does everyone think of his "check in the dark" was a deliberate strategy to play "small ball" on day 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he wants to play the player more then the cards, though I dont like checking in the dark after the flop.

Bad check: You check in the dark on the flop, guy hits a flush draw, and you give the guy a card (if you were to bet).

i think it was more of intimidation or just for show

Blindcurve · #8 10-18-2005, 10:48 PM

Interesting explanation. I couldn't figure out why he would check in the dark as much as he did. It seemed like he was giving up massive amounts of "Phil FE" (9 bracelet holder betting--look out), and putting himself in positions where he had to make really good reads, like in that AT hand where he made a bit of a mistake.

As for the TPTK vs. set read, I think it looked pretty easy, but I think a lot of 2+2er's go broke there. That is entirely read dependant, (Corpse (heh) did seem extremely tight, or at least had big hands in both hands we saw) and online there's very little chance of most of us getting away from that AK hand. I guess I shouldn't speak for the zoo, but I went broke there with AA on a K high board against an opponent who I thought could only reasonably have KK, but who I decided possibly could have AK and called anyway. I don't think I'm significantly worse than the average 2+2er.

If the octagenarian leads the flop, I think Phil goes broke if he has less than 25K. If the octagenarian is a little quieter, I think Phil goes broke.

-D,

Lloyd · #9 10-18-2005, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little behind (on Tivo) but I can't believe they haven't talked about Paul Magriel yet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Spoke too soon. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

PokerAmateur4 · #10 10-18-2005, 10:51 PM

Yes upon watching this I as shouting to my friends that Phil is amazing but now this makes alot of obvious sense. Some questions...

SossMan: Why is that a good example of why you should reraise when deep stacked? I also don't know who you meant to raise, and why? Please clarify.

KingDan: How is it a tough lay down?

Lloyd: What do you mean WPT discussion forum? Is that a joke because their boards suck? I've never been to them.