Restealing Conditions

[rockythecat99]

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If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

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Again, this is not true! Have you actually tried to work it out by ICM, based on how much he folds? When you push with a crap hand he has to fold a LOT more than if you do it with Ax. Unless you're talking about a fold of > 60%, then him calling hurts you much more when you have a really terrible hand. Trust me I have done the calculations and I know.

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Ok I think I am going to write a post about this on its own but I have to answer you here. Look stop thinking just because you made an ICM calculation you are right. The point of my response is not to say that in every single sng you play you go all in with 83o. If you do that then of course you are going to lose money.

I am saying that if the SITUATION warrants this move then you can do it with a positive EV. This is something ICM can't calculate. ICM calculates hands versus other hands that YOU THINK a player will call with. If I play you heads up lets say ICM will not help you one bit. Why?? because you don't know what I will call and when. For example I might call and all in from player x with Ace high but will not call player y with Ace high. Why?? Because of my read on each player.

YOu have to play the players and the situations thats something that ICM can't give you. That is the worst thing you can do as a poker player narrow your play because of percentages a computer program gives you.

[tigerite]

This is wrong on so many levels I'm not even going to begin. Think how you like..

[Nicholasp27]

cards matter only if u get called...everyone knows that if your attempt is unsuccesful, it's better to have a good hand than a bad hand

but i wanna get to the heart of the matter of when to resteal, not when to semi-resteal


if u want, u can give scenarios and say that factors x and y make this successful for top 50% of cards, or for any2 cards, or whatever

but i wanna get opinions on what factors one should take into account when deciding to resteal or not...cards is one, and we know how to do that...now, what other factors?


chip stacks? if so, what makeup? when the person u are restealing against has another even stack with him or there is an extreme shorty on table and it's 4-handed? do u have to have him covered in this case? just 2/3 his stack? etc...what factors should one consider when determining whether the conditions are favorable to resteal?

chip stacks
blind sizes
villian's tendencies (both card ranges and able to lay down vs calling station)
your table image
your cards
etc
etc

[bigt439]

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Trust me they don't matter.

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You are losing credibility at a ridiculously fast pace. Stop being so authoritative when you really don't know what you're talking about. Also if you are going to be this authoritative, try not to do it while making incredibly false statements.

[bones]

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chip stacks? if so, what makeup? when the person u are restealing against has another even stack with him or there is an extreme shorty on table and it's 4-handed?

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I wouldn't include bubble play in this discussion. In that case, it's almost exclusively about chip stacks and your particular read on the opp.

I think restealing is very buyin dependant. Since you're trying to force someone to fold a hand/position that they've already shown interest in, the most important considerations should be your table image and their desire to not be bluffed. The first one is obvious and is more important as the buyin increases. The second is a phenomenon that I never would have believed until I started playing poker. Reverse gap, value-calling, whatever you want to call it. At the low buyins, you constantly see people completing/min-raising, then calling a huge overbet with K6, 33, Q9, etc. People just hate being bluffed. It's important that you don't try a resteal on one of these sheriffs. By the time that a resteal is worthwhile, you should have a decent enough read on villian to make this determination.

The cards obviously matter, but not as much as the situation (Duh).

For example, I have 8/9s on the BB, folded to player in cutoff, makes standard 3x BB raise, we both have 15bb stacks. Do I shove it in here?

That would be a poor question to ask. It depends on the other factors. I have a great hand for "re-stealing", but pushing only on that merit would be terrible. How has villain been playing? If villain has been tight and passed up on a similar opportunity in earlier rounds, I may very well just fold. If villain has been loose and stealing at every decent given opportunity, but I think he is capable of folding enough to be +EV, ramming it in is fine. However, the cards you are holding obviously affect how you fare against villain's calling range and much fold equity you need for the play to be +EV, and saying they are completely meaningless is rediculous. I don't think Rocky meant it that way, I just think he is trying to say the situation is much more important, which it is. If you wouldn't be willing to resteal here with a much worse hand than 9/8s based on other circumstances, its very likely the spot isn't good for a resteal anyway.