Restealing Conditions

Nicholasp27 · #1 10-17-2005, 09:45 AM

This thread is for thoughts on the conditions needed for resteals to be considered as a good move.

Blind sizes, chip stacks, number of players left, villian reads, etc...whatever u think is important to consider before going for a resteal

if u want, submit real or hypothetical hands to further illustrate it

tigerite · #2 10-17-2005, 09:47 AM

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Blind sizes, chip stacks, number of players left, villian reads, etc...whatever u think is important to consider before going for a resteal

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All of the above, plus table image, plus your cards actually do matter a little.

Nicholasp27 · #3 10-17-2005, 09:50 AM

what i mean is what should u look for

blind stacks matter, so what makeup of blind stacks is most ideal for a resteal and when do blind stacks dicate that it's a bad time to do a resteal

cards only matter if u are called...i wanna get to the meat of how to determine when conditions are ripe to resteal with low probability of being called...

tigerite · #4 10-17-2005, 09:51 AM

Cards matter though because you have to factor in how often he will fold, and as that's never going to be 100%, they do have to be good enough to stand up to his when he does call.. it also matters how close you are to going to the felt and the pot odds you are giving him to call (as most people go on that, because there's no way of working out ICM at the table, naturally)..

Nicholasp27 · #5 10-17-2005, 10:02 AM

ok, cards matter
but we all know what cards have what odds, etc...

what i wanna get at is the other conditions

ie if he has 3x your stack, you have lower chance of restealing whereas if stacks are

5k/1k/1k/1k and u both have 1k, he may let u resteal more of the time...

tigerite · #6 10-17-2005, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ok, cards matter
but we all know what cards have what odds, etc...

what i wanna get at is the other conditions

ie if he has 3x your stack, you have lower chance of restealing whereas if stacks are

5k/1k/1k/1k and u both have 1k, he may let u resteal more of the time...

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Well this depends because many players erroneously only see pot odds, for instance, if he raises to 250 and the blinds are 50/100 and you re-push then it's 750 for him to call into a pot of about 1300.. even if he "shouldn't" call by ICM etc. So it also depends on the situation of the game. Generally having someone covered is the best time to do it, and not to a total donk, because the looser they are the worse it is, much like open pushing in fact.

rockythecat99 · #7 10-17-2005, 10:10 AM

Cards don't matter. Situations matter. For example. I play the turbos at stars so stacks are bigger and there is more playability. But say party for example. If its the bubble and you know from previous hands that player x is a blind stealer when he raises your BB or SB and you have a really good idea that BB will fold you go all in. You must have a stack that is comparable to player x's stack so that even if he is chip lead you will make a big dent on him if he calls say 1/3-1/2 of his stack.

tigerite · #8 10-17-2005, 10:11 AM

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Cards don't matter. Situations matter.

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I'm sorry but this is not true, cards do matter, but they are probably the smallest part of the equation, however the stronger your holding, the less it matters if he calls.. you can't say they don't matter because it's total rubbish.

rockythecat99 · #9 10-17-2005, 10:16 AM

Trust me they don't matter. Thats the thing with bluffs and restealing is a bluff, the situation matters the most. That is why people don't go far in tournaments because they say well I have Ax in the BB and this guy is raising on the button I am going to resteal because I have Ax. NO. This is clearly incorrect thinking because they wait to have "a hand" and don't think of the situation.

If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

Yesterday I bluffed a guy with 43o from utg on a Q109 board because I read the situation correctly not because of the hands I had. Obviously this is a very read specific play and I played solid the rest of the sng but you get my point. If and when you spot a plus ev situation your hand no longer matters its how you bet the hand that matters. I hope that helps.

tigerite · #10 10-17-2005, 10:20 AM

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If you had 83o and you knew this guy was trying to steal your bb you can go all in with a positive expectation. Sure there will be a time when he calls and shows you AK or QQ. But this is a plus ev play. Stop thinking about cards so damn much.

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Again, this is not true! Have you actually tried to work it out by ICM, based on how much he folds? When you push with a crap hand he has to fold a LOT more than if you do it with Ax. Unless you're talking about a fold of > 60%, then him calling hurts you much more when you have a really terrible hand. Trust me I have done the calculations and I know.