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  #11  
Old 10-09-2005, 12:40 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Hi Everyone:

We're actually quite happy with the magazine. In fact, we feel that it is far superior to any other magazine out there and this includes both hard copy and Internet mags. We're also proud that we don't allow the fluff and require every author, no matter who it is, to produce something worthwhile.

Specifically, we're looking for good articles that will create discussion. They don't have to be something that Ed or I (or David or Ray) agree with, but the author needs to be able to defend his position in a logical and detailed manner.

A note on Barrron: One of the reason why I began to write articles on poker and other forms of gambling is that it was part of my learning process. I suspect that something along the same lines is happening with Barron. The difference is that because of the Internet and these forums, he is able to get a great deal of excellent feedback. Feedback for me (years ago) was a much smaller and slower process. So I'm a little jealous.

Best wishes,
Mason
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2005, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was that rhetorical?

[/ QUOTE ]

NO... a computer can be programmed to play exactly the same way as you would play... and evaluate more factors faster!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

I read players. A computer doesn't.

A computer is programmed along the lines of if/and/or/then/else. (Boolean)

I make adjustments. A computer can't.

If you play exactly the same in every known/possible situation, you will be beaten by the computer, assuming you each receive an equal number of AA, AK, etc., compared to an equal number of 27o, 38o, etc.

The computer is programmed with all the best knowledge available. I'm not. I make mistakes, yes. How will a computer distinguish my mistakes from a bluff or a semi-bluff? It won't. It will simply charge ahead.

Did you see this? I thought it was interesting.

http://www.poker-academy.com/wprc/
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:00 AM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

[ QUOTE ]
the author needs to be able to defend his position in a logical and detailed manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason,

Have you read the thread in question? Does that satisfy your expectations wrt an author "defend[ing] his position in a logical and detailed manner" ?

This post describes how I expected this article to be defended and illustrates a number of examples of Barron's "defenses" that were imo nothing but guesses and feelings backed up by no logical reasoning or analysis whatsoever.

I was surprised to see what I believe to be a very flawed article in the magazine. Barron's attitude in reaction to criticism is what really disappointed me, though. All manner of logic errors in the thread aside, his unwillingness to openly consider his errors was stunning. I have come to expect far more from 2+2.

In addition, Mason, do you have any thoughts regarding my criticism of the strategic advice given in the "Marginal hand turn decision" article?

Thought-provoking articles are one thing. Advice that is simply incorrect is a very different thing. In my opinion, that is the side of the line where the 2+2 magazine found itself in the last issue.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:33 AM
mikech mikech is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

[ QUOTE ]
A note on Barrron: One of the reason why I began to write articles on poker and other forms of gambling is that it was part of my learning process. I suspect that something along the same lines is happening with Barron. ...because of the Internet and these forums, he is able to get a great deal of excellent feedback.

[/ QUOTE ]
i suspect you haven't read the thread. the author has certainly gotten a ton of feedback, but there's no sign of any learning process taking place; instead his stance has basically been: "that's my story and i'm sticking to it."
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:39 AM
Sniper Sniper is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Nut,

Do a search for my posts in the Bot threads and you'll get more detailed reasoning.... no reason to hijack this thread.

Suffice to say you underestimate the capabilities of computer AI... do some more reading on the poker academy and UofAlberta sites.
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Thank you, I will. After I last posted I realized I was headed in the HJ direction. I apologize to all.



[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2005, 03:12 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Hi Masked Man:

Sometimes the learning process can be tough, and the reaction you see will in time change. With this said I'll try to spend some time in the thread.

Best wishes,
Mason
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2005, 04:48 AM
Zeno Zeno is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

There is something wrong here. And it needs pointing out. I will not get into the middle of others that are discussing the issue(s) with Barron's article. But I feel compelled to make one remark that I will address to you, Mr. Miller.

The large thread created by the controversy about the article is rather gruesome, like an old steam train blowing up in slow motion while traversing a collapsing bridge. 2+2 is the collapsing bridge and Barron is the engineer operating the train.

But here is the real problem – the intransient stance of Barron. This bizarre behavior is difficult to understand in a winning poker player. People that display this type of behavior cannot, in my opinion, be long-term winning players, at least not at higher limits. They may be successful for a period of time at lower to mid- limits, especially under the conditions of play at present, but sooner or later, they will slowly lose their bankroll and dissolve into nothingness or be forever stuck at some level of play and limit. The inability to admit a possible mistake or acknowledge that perhaps your thinking was questionable is a serious character flaw and an immense psychological block to improving your poker playing skills. And this applies to much more than just poker, as you well know.

In addition, Barron's obstinate behavior does not reflect well on the magazine in particular, or on 2+2 in general.



[ QUOTE ]
The magazine works differently. This is the place for "edgy" ideas and theories. We're willing to take more risks, create more controversy, and allow people a place to propose some non-traditional ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are some Journals that operated, more or less, on the same principles, or will occasionally print something to stimulate discussion and get the idea into print for the purpose of gleaning reaction and analysis from others. This is usually done as part of a learning cycle, but what occurred in the subsequent thread dealing with Barron’s article was that the cycle was derailed.

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, just because we print it doesn't necessarily mean that we (Mason and I) agree with it. We print it because we think it is interesting and may educate people and provoke discussion.


[/ QUOTE ]

Can you honestly state that was the case with Barron's article?

I ask this question in a completely rhetorical manner.

Regards,

-Zeno
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2005, 05:44 AM
bobbyi bobbyi is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Ed, if you just admit that twoplustwo made a mistake and published a terrible article, we aren't going to less of you for it. Frankly, I am insulted by this PR man crap spinning an article full of strategic nonsense as "edgy" and "taking risks". Your refusal to comment on the substance of the article by saying that it isn't "relevant" is an absurd copout.

I have looked forward to a new edition of the magazine each month and have even considered contributing. This isn't the first time there has been a deeply flawed article (the "multitabling" article spring to mind) and if it weren't for the discussion here, I would have just shrugged this one off too since overall I have enjoyed this month's magazine so far, but honestly this disingenuous "damage control" thread really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If you needed to start a new thread about this, just leveling with us and telling us what you really think of the article and the reaction to it would have been much more respectful of our intelligence and perceptiveness than your carefully worded evasions.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:31 PM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: My Take on the Magazine

Hey,

Am I the only one who thought the Oct. issue was one of the best? Anything that provokes such a reaction has got to be a publisher's wet dream. I agree that the mag should provoke discussion, and that's what it did.
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