About to try SH for the third time, help me out HUSH guru's...

[kenberman]

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Why is it a terrible idea to build up my 6 max bankroll from 3/6 instead of going right to higher limits?

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it sounds like you want to go from 3/6 to 10/20.
you should go from 1/2 to 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20.

[rory]

Don't listen to other people if their advice doesn't make any sense for your situation!

If the blinds are not going to fold, then don't try to steal the blinds with weak hands. It's pretty obvious when it is put that way. Look at your hand, and go, "Do I think this hand plays well against two opponents who are going to call me down with anything?" and then decide if it is worth raising. You aren't stealing anymore, because they have come up with the perfect solution to blind 'defense', never giving up their blinds. You can never steal! But now you have to punish them in a different way, not by stealing their blind, but by playing hands that have value against two players with position postflop.

This is why trying to match your stats is wrong. If you thought about this poker scenario, you would know if it was right to raise on the button in a certain game with a certain hand and when it wasn't. In some games, I raise almost 100% of my hands on the button when it is folded to me. In others, 20%. It averages out to about 35%-- but if you went and tried to raise 35% of your hands in every game in every situation to match my stat, you would not do as well as me.

I don't really think it is important to blind steal and defend. I don't even really know what that means. If the button is raising your big blind all the time, then you defend with hands that beat his range and go from there. If the blinds fold too much, you raise more from the button. If they fold too little, you raise less. Steal and defend implies something you are doing to someone else and they are doing to you. They aren't doing anything to you and you aren't doing anything to them-- if the cards are right to raise with on the button, you raise. If they are right to call with in the big blind, you call. Nothing personal there, it's just cards. Steal and defend make it personal and make people play bad.

Here is my solution for your over-aggression, since you say your games are loose and passive:

On the flop, you have to try to knock people out if you can with top pair, so putting in 3 bets or whatever is right. The flop is a time you have to be more aggressive, so it is hard to come up with general rules. Don't go crazy trying to knock people out with middle pair and all of that stuff-- you are most likely flushing money down the toilet until you know what you are doing.

On the turn, do not ever 3-bet with less than one pair. Do not ever raise with less than top pair. Do not cap with less than a set. Do not 3-bet with two pair or a set if the board is 3 flushed. Same for the river.

That should handle your psychotic aggression numbers.

6-max is not this slugfest of ultra aggression where everyone is psycho and the bets and raises mean nothing. Most of the time there are the same mix of players as usually, the tight aggressive guys, the too-aggressive guys which are often 2+2ers flailing around trying to defend themselves from ghosts of these psychotic aggressive 6-max players that do not exist, and the calling station types. I think if you follow those aggression rules you will at least stay out of trouble-- yeah you'll be giving up some value in some spots, but I doubt it will be much. And you won't be doing crap like 3 betting with top pair, getting capped and calling down on the turn, which is always good.

Don't 4 table either-- it's not like full ring where you can fold, stick your thumb up your ass for 5 minutes and ignore that table while 4 guys see the river. You play many more hands and have many more difficult decisions to make, so give yourself a chance at least to make good ones.

Hope this helps. I always feel like such a dick when I post these posts.

[Perseus]

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[ QUOTE ]
Why is it a terrible idea to build up my 6 max bankroll from 3/6 instead of going right to higher limits?

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it sounds like you want to go from 3/6 to 10/20.
you should go from 1/2 to 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I meant eventually up to 10/20 making a stop at 5/10 for a reasonable length of time.

The reason I am not starting at 1/2 is because last time I played there, about a year ago, the players were SO bad that it didn't really prepare me for anything higher. I was a winner at that limit, but that was a long time ago.

Figured 3/6 would be a better place to start since the $$ aspect isn't really a concern

I think the folklore about people never folding their blinds to steals in 3-6 is largely false.

[Perseus]

Don't feel like a dick, that was a great post for someone new to 6-max.

That was the kind of reply I was hoping to get from my OP...just some general thoughts. It's always amazing how things make more sense when someone else says them.

I like what you said about hitting the proper stat numbers. That is probably what the other posters were trying to tell me...concentrate on decisions instead of doing things a certain % of time.

I feel silly for posting that now.

Thanks for the post,
Jon

[Perseus]

It has more to do with the impact of the rake in heads up pots at 3/6.

[gildwulf]

I don't see anything wrong with setting a goal of 10K hands if that helps psychologically. I've set a goal of 100k hands by the end of the schoolyear at 5/10 but I don't really give a [censored] what the results are. It's just a goal.

[aslowjoe]

There seems to be lot of bashing of stats. Stats are like a game plan they have to be adjusted to who your playing but a general idea of where to be is a good idea. My guess is you already know. Havent played any Party 3/6 but have played at other sites at that level and I don't see that it would be huge dif then 5/10. Very general and people can feel free to correct me.
For someone new to 6 max
VPIP 20-26
PFR 14-18
WTSD 32-37
aggresion 2.5-3.5 flop turn
FBBTS 50-70

if you fall outside of these numbers I would look to see why.

I think playing 10,000 hands is a good gauge. It might not be indicative of your ability either way but gives a feel of weather you want to continue. 100BB could go very quickly but why not try it. Start at 1 or 2 tables. I myself find when I go from 3 to 4 it gets considerably tougher. A session a 1/2 just to get you warmed might not hurt either.
Good luck

[RunDownHouse]

First: Rory, without knowing you at all personally, I think if you always posted - whether or not you felt like a dick - HUSH would be a better place.

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The reason I am not starting at 1/2 is because last time I played there, about a year ago, the players were SO bad that it didn't really prepare me for anything higher. I was a winner at that limit, but that was a long time ago.

Figured 3/6 would be a better place to start since the $$ aspect isn't really a concern

[/ QUOTE ]
If you aren't winning at 3/6, one of two things is most likely true. Either you're running poorly, or you're missing/misapplying fundamental concepts. If its the former, then just stick it out long enough and you'll converge. If its the latter, then you were likely running well at 1/2 when you were winning, because the two levels are so similar that I don't think you can be a winner at one and a loser at another without something being off in your play/reasoning.

Again, just play/post/read more.

[pyroponic]

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I know experience is the key, which is why I'm not playing 10/20. I have the bankroll for it, but I refuse to play it unless I can build up a 10/20 bankroll off lower limits of 3/6max.


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Jon, you seem to be interested in retrying $3/6 SH seriously and possibly moving up the ladder eventually. My website John has gambling problems might be of interest of you. I jumped into $5/10 6-max a few months ago after playing 8-tabling $3/6 ring, so hopefully I can give you an idea about how the transition is.