About to try SH for the third time, help me out HUSH guru's...

[Perseus]

So the first two attempts at 3/6SH resulted in crash and burn. Hopefully the third time will be a charm.

In terms of studying/learning 6-max, last time I tried it I really studied it hard, and not just for a week or two. I have been studying HUSH on and off for the last year but both times I've really tried to play it full time I have done no better than a slight loser.

My mistakes last time included trying to play four games at a time right off the bat...trying to hit 24/12 numbers before I was comfortable playing so many hands...and not practicing game selection.

I'll post stats if requested but I get the feeling stat posts are overrated (which they are) and usually unnecessary (also true).

So my question for this post: Does anyone here have over 100k hands at the party 3/6 6 max level where they've won over 1bb/100? I would love to see what a long term winners 3/6 6max stats look like compared to those guys who play 10/20 6max.

I notice a lot of the players on this forum feverently state the importance of blind stealing/defending, but with the super-loose calling stations AND the rediculously high rake for 3/6 I'm wondering if tigher might be better.

Also, if you guys had to give an "ideal" WSD%, if there is such a thing, what would you give? How would it differ from 3/6 - 10/20?

Lastly, what would you say I should be shooting for with aggression numbers? Last time I was way too aggro, like 4-3-2.5ish type numbers. Should I be aiming for 2.5-2-1ish instead?

I know this is a pretty lame "I'm new to 6-max help me" post, but I figure if I can one good thought it is worth posting.

Thanks,
Jon

[RunDownHouse]

I'm not sure why you keep comparing 3/6 to 10/20. The levels are nothing alike, from what I've heard. You even mention the difference, but still ask for comparisons between the two.

Also, is there a reason you've tried 3/6 a couple times and gone back to full ring? If its because of bankroll limitations, then I'd drop to 1/2 (or 2/4 on another site, maybe) and learn from there. No harm or shame in it. If its because you need x income and so have to take shots, then I'd advise taking shots at 3/6, but when it comes time for a retreat, play a couple more hours at 1/2 if you can squeeze them in.

The crux of my post is that experience is really the best teacher. You can catapult your advance by reading books, reading posts, posting hands, etc., but experience is still key. Get in there and play hands, whether that means dropping to 1/2 or playing a few more hours/month at 3/6 or 1/2 alongside your full ring play.

[Megenoita]

Instead of looking for all kinds of stats and figures to aim for, how about aiming for proper play. How about feeling out opponents and thinking about what you think will work against the way they play. Make your own rules. Get your own numbers. You can have all the right numbers in all the right places and still not know wtf you are doing.

The higher limit SH games are just like the lower limits in that you still find good tables, and you still play each hand based on your observations of everyone else. It's just more important now.

I played 1/2 full table forever because I spent my BR. Then I wanted to move up. I flew up from .5/1 (6) to 1/2 (6) to 2/4 to 3/6 (6) to 5/10 (6) and now I have the BR for 10/20 but am waiting a bit. The way I got better was not concentrating on any numbers, although mine do align with tighter TAGs. I don't really pay much attention to them. The way I win at every level is putting myself at tables where I know how to play against the players around me. That's all that poker amounts to at any level.

M

[Perseus]

Thanks for the reply,

I compare the two because most of the advice here is based around 10/20, and I've noticed when 10/20 regular players respond to 3/6 hands they will sometimes forget that the players are different. I was thinking that some of the reasons why I fail is that the advice I am using when trying to hone my game comes from 10/20 players, and the strategy might be different.

I have the bankroll to play 6max, but I keep going back to full ring because after a 10k breakeven stretch I become frustrated and would rather not play 6 max while I am frustrated.

I know experience is the key, which is why I'm not playing 10/20. I have the bankroll for it, but I refuse to play it unless I can build up a 10/20 bankroll off lower limits of 3/6max.

Lastly, I seperate full ring and 6 max so much because I really dislike playing two different types of games at the same time. Just personal preferance.

For this "shot" I am giving myself 10k hands of 3/6 or 100 BB's. If I go down, no big deal, and if I am not over 1bb/100 over 10k hands then I'll go back to full ring for a bit (need to pay the bills [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). I know 10k is less than peanuts, but eventually in one of these 10k hand stretches things will take off and I'll be OK...I hope.


Thanks again,

Jon

[Megenoita]

I think a 10k stretch is silly. You can have multiple 10k stretches where you're not winning as you will in the long term. You should play SH as long as you feel that you are a better player than almost everyone else. If you are a thinking TAG, you most certainly are. The RB from SH is really good compared to full ring, so that should help with your bills. When you hit an upswing at your SH level, you'll never look back. I wouldn't limit myself to a number of hands, but perhaps a BB number is wise (although I'd say at least 150).

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of looking for all kinds of stats and figures to aim for, how about aiming for proper play. How about feeling out opponents and thinking about what you think will work against the way they play. Make your own rules. Get your own numbers. You can have all the right numbers in all the right places and still not know wtf you are doing.

The higher limit SH games are just like the lower limits in that you still find good tables, and you still play each hand based on your observations of everyone else. It's just more important now.

I played 1/2 full table forever because I spent my BR. Then I wanted to move up. I flew up from .5/1 (6) to 1/2 (6) to 2/4 to 3/6 (6) to 5/10 (6) and now I have the BR for 10/20 but am waiting a bit. The way I got better was not concentrating on any numbers, although mine do align with tighter TAGs. I don't really pay much attention to them. The way I win at every level is putting myself at tables where I know how to play against the players around me. That's all that poker amounts to at any level.

M

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally understandable and thats exactly what I tried to do the first two times. I thought maybe getting some general guidelines on just WTSD% and aggression numbers would help, because I noticed in a few other threads that peoples suggestions differed than my own stats.

Like, my WTSD is 31.18. I feel that most people "suggest" higher. Since just playing hasn't worked so far I thought maybe concentrating and adjusting particular stats, and therefor important parts of my game, would help.

But I see what you are saying and agree 100%...playing and learning >> concentrating on hitting particular stats.

Thanks for your reply,

Jon

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a 10k stretch is silly. You can have multiple 10k stretches where you're not winning as you will in the long term. You should play SH as long as you feel that you are a better player than almost everyone else. If you are a thinking TAG, you most certainly are. The RB from SH is really good compared to full ring, so that should help with your bills. When you hit an upswing at your SH level, you'll never look back. I wouldn't limit myself to a number of hands, but perhaps a BB number is wise (although I'd say at least 150).

[/ QUOTE ]

It may be silly, but if I'm not winning it is really all I can afford to take off from full ring and still hit my quota per month. This is not a strict guideline though so I'll see how it goes.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I compare the two because most of the advice here is based around 10/20, and I've noticed when 10/20 regular players respond to 3/6 hands they will sometimes forget that the players are different.

[/ QUOTE ]
It shouldn't matter. If you understand why they're recommending the play they are, you should also be able to see why it wouldn't apply against a different lineup. I know this can be tough when there are a lot of one-liners being posted, but you can always ask "why?" No one will bite your head off... generally.

[ QUOTE ]
I know 10k is less than peanuts

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, 100BB is less than peanuts, and if that's your loss limit, I'm not too surprised you haven't lasted long at 6max.

If its a tilt issue, and you aren't playing well because you're frustrated, then I guess its ok to take a break, and you might never be a full-time 6max player. But if you've got the roll, you should really stick around unless you feel totally lost. If that happens, move down a level and see how you feel there.

[kenberman]

I've only skimmed your posts, but I think you are focusing on all the wrong things.

don't focus so much on stats.

[ QUOTE ]
I know experience is the key, which is why I'm not playing 10/20. I have the bankroll for it, but I refuse to play it unless I can build up a 10/20 bankroll off lower limits of 3/6max.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a terrible idea

[ QUOTE ]
For this "shot" I am giving myself 10k hands of 3/6 or 100 BB's.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you want to take a shot, give yourself 25 or 50 BB's. if you want to learn 6 max, give yourself 400.

[ QUOTE ]
but eventually in one of these 10k hand stretches things will take off and I'll be OK...I hope.


[/ QUOTE ]

why are you focused on these 10K stretches? focus on learning

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
I've only skimmed your posts, but I think you are focusing on all the wrong things.

don't focus so much on stats.

[ QUOTE ]
I know experience is the key, which is why I'm not playing 10/20. I have the bankroll for it, but I refuse to play it unless I can build up a 10/20 bankroll off lower limits of 3/6max.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a terrible idea

[ QUOTE ]
For this "shot" I am giving myself 10k hands of 3/6 or 100 BB's.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you want to take a shot, give yourself 25 or 50 BB's. if you want to learn 6 max, give yourself 400.

[ QUOTE ]
but eventually in one of these 10k hand stretches things will take off and I'll be OK...I hope.


[/ QUOTE ]

why are you focused on these 10K stretches? focus on learning

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it a terrible idea to build up my 6 max bankroll from 3/6 instead of going right to higher limits?

The 10k hand thing was just and I'll play 10k hands and see how I feel when it's over. But maybe your right, I shouldn't really be focusing on a specific set of hands played at this point.