interesting WPT tournament hand

SossMan · #1 10-05-2005, 01:20 PM

major TV tournament.

Hero is UTG w/ 7k.
Blinds 150-300 a25. Hour levels.
Hero tosses out a 1k chip intending to raise, but he is an internet donkey playing in his first live tournament and doesn't know the one chip rule. everyone at the table knew his intent.

He has AKo and a very tight (prob weak tight) image.

He gets 5 callers. 6 to the flop w/ ~2k in the pot.

Flop is KQx rainbow

He bets out 1200. Young aggressive name pro next to act flat calls. Everyone else folds.

Pot is 4400 and hero has 5500 left.

Turn is a small card putting two spades on board (no spades for hero).

Hero checks.

Young aggressive pro immediately slides out four 1k chips (4000).

Hero?

adanthar · #2 10-05-2005, 01:31 PM

Hero curses himself out for betting instead of checkraising the flop, then figures there's a 3:1 chance of being good here (not to mention the ace outs) so this is a no brainer call after which he can go cry himself to sleep in a side game.

Roman · #3 10-05-2005, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pukes. Is the king a spade? Makes a bit of a difference cause villian could concievably have KJs and the like, JTs/JTo is also possible if he is really agressive. The flat call does show quite a bit of strength because hero did intend to raise UTG which narrows his range to AA-99 AK-AQs I am guessing, once he bets the flop 6way villian could narrow that down further to QQ-AA/AK. This would be a pretty clear fold vs a non "aggressive young pro". I think I puke and push in the heat of the moment here, but in retrospect a fold is close and might even be better.

Roman · #4 10-05-2005, 01:33 PM

I agree with the checkraise btw

davidross · #5 10-05-2005, 01:35 PM

Given the reads I don't see how you can call this, but I'm having trouble putting the pro on a hand. If everyone knew he meant to raise pre-flop UTG and he's tight, AK is the minimum they have him on, and I don't see why a good pro would try and push a weak/tightie off a big hand on the come, it just doesn't make sense. So I think he can beat AA with this move.

davidross · #6 10-05-2005, 01:41 PM

You really want to try a check-raise in a 6 way hand? WHat if there is a bet and a raise before it getsback to you? WHat if it's checked around? Heads up with the aggressive guy I like it, but with 2 blinds who haven't paid to play I really don't.

barry111 · #7 10-05-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero tosses out a 1k chip intending to raise, but he is an internet donkey playing in his first live tournament and doesn't know the one chip rule

[/ QUOTE ] can someone explain the one chip rule no I never become said donkey......

Che · #8 10-05-2005, 01:50 PM

If you toss one chip into the pot *without* announcing raise, you have just called even if you threw a 5000 chip in after a bet of 50.

You can avoid being an internet donkey one of two ways:

a. Always announce any action you make.
b. Always use multiple chips.

I know these things b/c I was the internet donkey for one hand at the WSOP this year. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Later,
Che

SossMan · #9 10-05-2005, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero tosses out a 1k chip intending to raise, but he is an internet donkey playing in his first live tournament and doesn't know the one chip rule

[/ QUOTE ] can someone explain the one chip rule no I never become said donkey......

[/ QUOTE ]

say blinds are 150-300. you are utg. you toss out a single 1k chips w/out saying anything, it's just a call. if you toss it out and say raise before it lands, it's a raise to 1k. If you say some other amount less than 1k and toss out the 1k chip, it's that amount.

Let's say that the utg minraises to 600 and you toss out a single 5k chip w/out saying anything, it's a call. if you simply say raise and toss out the single chip, it's a raise to 5k.

anytime you toss out more than one chip, it's automatically that amount (assuming it was a legal raise).

This only occurs when the action has been opened. Preflop, the action has been opened by the blinds, so it's a call.

Let's say that there are 3 people in the hand on the flop. You are first to act. You toss out a 5k chip into a 900 chip pot, it's 5k to go.

got it?

ekky · #10 10-05-2005, 01:54 PM

table knows his intent preflop, so they have to put him on a pretty tight range of hands... AA/KK/AK/AQ/QQ/JJ/1010 most likely

He bets out 1.2k into a field of 6 players... would he seriously do this if he had whiffed the flop with his underpair? most likely not, so the table can narrow his range even further.

He gets flat called, given the information freely passed around preflop?

Heros dilemma is that there is only one draw out there... 10J.. the rest of the pro's calling hands are going to be made hands, and the pro *knows* what the UTG donks range is, so any made hand is most likely going to be a set/2 pair
for villain

I don't think hero can put enough confidence in the hope that villain has 10J, to justify calling here with one pair.

one thing that is quite important is the villains relative position to the UTG donk, as the further away he is, the less likely he would be to have KK/QQ...

getting 2/1 here... its most likely he is looking at 10J or QK/QQ/KK... against this *likely* range, id lean towards advocating a fold for hero