David Pham Chops

drewjustdrew · #1 08-25-2005, 09:41 AM

From pokerpages.com

"Pham Forced to Accept Win

Chop or get chopped, that was the dilemma facing David "The Dragon" Pham when the points playoff championship got heads-up. It was one of the most bizarre conclusions to any poker tournament in history, and here's what happened. With three players left, Waleed Belleh moved in for $31,600, and Minh "Poker Host" Nguyen called for $10,700. "Hold on, I have a hand," Pham said. After some deliberation he folded and showed A-6. His opponents both had A-3, and Pham, in frustration, let slip the f-word. It turned out to be a good laydown, because Belleh had A-3 of clubs, and two running clubs gave him a flush.

Now it was heads-up, and Pham still had the lead, $68,100-$45,600. But there was still the matter of the f-word, heard by a floorman, Belleh reminded him. Belleh, an auto mechanic who generally plays only on weekends, offered an immediate chop, with Pham getting a few thousand extra. The Dragon had never agreed to a chop in his life But now he was between a chop and a hard place, the alternative being having a big chunk of his chips blinded and anted off in 10 minutes as Belleh played with himself. So he reluctantly agreed, took the win and split up the $50,000 first-place prize. "

Nice sentence. So hard place = playing with himself?

ononimo · #2 08-25-2005, 10:24 AM

yet another example of the extreme idiocy of the "f-bomb" rule.

shaniac · #3 08-25-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yet another example of the extreme idiocy of the "f-bomb" rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

And another example of a headsup opponent who didn't have the decency to let the f-word slide.

99% sure that if I'm David's opponent there, I take the penalty with him.

Paul Phillips · #4 08-25-2005, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yet another example of the extreme idiocy of the "f-bomb" rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

And another example of a headsup opponent who didn't have the decency to let the f-word slide.

99% sure that if I'm David's opponent there, I take the penalty with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a perfect spot to shout at full volume "F-U-C-K this ridiculous rule."

-Skeme- · #5 08-25-2005, 10:58 AM

I'd tell the F bomb rule to choke on a bucket of cocks.

shaniac · #6 08-25-2005, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Such a perfect spot to shout at full volume "F-U-C-K this ridiculous rule."

[/ QUOTE ]

I look forward to the opportunity to exercise such a noble gesture. Of course, the opponent could have waited until after Pham's stack was blinded down before determining what kind of deal he could make, so it's more like he used the penalty as a bargaining chip. Still pretty lame, but shrewd.

As an aside Paul, what do u think of the Dragon's game?

lou9182 · #7 08-25-2005, 11:07 AM

I play in casino's in Canada and I have never heard of this rule. Does someone mind telling me how severe the penalty is. Is this a common rule all over the USA?

shaniac · #8 08-25-2005, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I play in casino's in Canada and I have never heard of this rule. Does someone mind telling me how severe the penalty is. Is this a common rule all over the USA?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's usually a 10-minute penalty, but if you tell the floorman that "the rule is bulllshit" you can easily turn it into 20.

And it's becoming more common. I think it started in LA cardrooms, where player and dealer abuse was a big problem and people apparently need rules to inform them that using the "f-word" is often impolite. It was a constant source of nagging at the WSOP 2005.

einbert · #9 08-25-2005, 11:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
99% sure that if I'm David's opponent there, I take the penalty with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I like money too much for this.

I hate the f-bomb rule as much as the next person, but like any other rule in any other game, once it becomes a rule it is simply another aspect of the game structure. My opponent failing to adapt to the new game structure is something that I will always use to my advantage, to whatever extent that means (I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about playing within the rules of the game).

But if we are HU shaniac, then I will be very grateful that you chose to take the penalty with me =D.

shaniac · #10 08-25-2005, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I like money too much for this.

I hate the f-bomb rule as much as the next person, but like any other rule in any other game, once it becomes a rule it is simply another aspect of the game structure. My opponent failing to adapt to the new game structure is something that I will always use to my advantage, to whatever extent that means (I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about playing within the rules of the game).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not surprising that a 2+2er would take this attitude, but it's still pretty lame. Poker is in fact a game that consists of more than squeezing out small edges at every opportunity. And yes, the F-word rule becomes just another rule (like the exposed cards rule) once it's in play, but that doesn't mean you can't use your best judgement to determine that it's a pathetic rule that has nothing to do with the game. If you're willing to take advantage of a rule as contrary to poker as the "f-bomb" in order to win, you're essentially being greedy and tacitly admitting you don't have the edge to beat your opponent organically. Most resepctable poker players would consider it a scumbag tactic.