Playing against a MANIAC

grjr · #1 08-20-2005, 04:16 PM

I haven't seen this mentioned for a while and I just happened to run across this hand while looking at something else. I was playing the hand back and couldn't figure out what I was doing. Then I looked at Villain's (CO) stats.

If all the maniacs in the world had a convention and a card game broke out all the other maniacs would think this guy is nuts. Over 247 hands his stats were 80/65/8. You would think the 8AF was almost impossible when coupled with the 80 but it wasn't.

If CO here saw the flop chances are he wasn't folding. His WTSD% was 65% and would have been higher if everyone didn't keep folding to him. Obviously he will bet and raise with anything. Interestly enough, over those 247 hands he only lost $1.63.

Anyways, here is the hand. MP2 was 30/5/.5 after 91 hands. You can debate my play up to the river if you like but what I really want to know is what do you do on the river and why?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero???

bozlax · #2 08-20-2005, 04:25 PM

I chuck it. With MP hanging around with his 0.5 PFA, he's gotta have a better piece of this than a 6. Could be a long-shot flush draw and he folds behind you, but I doubt it, given he called 2 cold on the flop.

#3 08-20-2005, 04:26 PM

Call! You're getting at least 12.75-1 so there's no reason to fold now. You probably should have folded on the flop. You might have the maniac beaten but there's two other players in the pot as well.

PokerSparky · #4 08-20-2005, 04:31 PM

I can't put MP2 on anything that doesn't beat you. Combine that with the fact that CO may very well have you beat, and I think this is a fold.

bozlax · #5 08-20-2005, 04:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You might have the maniac beaten but there's two other players in the pot as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you're one of 'em. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Vote4Pedro · #6 08-20-2005, 04:34 PM

Raise or fold the river...Theres no way your bottom pair is gonna beat whatever MPs been calling with, facing him with 2BB might get him to fold a Q. Personally, I fold.

#7 08-20-2005, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might have the maniac beaten but there's two other players in the pot as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you're one of 'em. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant that there were 2 more players on the flop that could have him beaten. On the other hand, a raise might force a J out.

detruncate · #8 08-20-2005, 07:06 PM

The flop play is debatable, and depends on how often you'll get it HU. I don't hate it, but I'd prefer it with a stronger pair or a BD nut flush draw given the possibility of multiway action and the near certainty that you're going to be 3-bet. Spiking an ace has a fairly strong possiblility of creating redraws for any fairly reasonable opponent who calls your raise. We have a poor hand mulitway, and aren't usually going to be a huge favourite HU given the combined possiblities of Villain having paired or having overcards to our 6.

I'd think about raising the turn. You'd much prefer to play this out without MP2. You'll often have CO beaten and MP2 has a hard time calling 2 BB without a strong hand or draw.

If you're going to call this river you should raise instead. You don't want overcalls. Foregoing a turn raise in favour of raising a river brick seems like a reasonable alternative. Calling this river doesn't.

#9 08-20-2005, 08:06 PM

Looks to me like you played this hand in a manner which normally would have been way too strong preflop and on the flop, in an attempt to take on the maniac, isolate him, and go heads up against him.

By the turn, it seemed to have failed, MP2 was still in there, and you hung in as you had pot odds to continue.

Given that you didn't bet the turn, you had already given up on knocking out MP2, so now to me this looks like you're obviously beaten on the river.

But.... CO probably has nothing, and MP2 may have been on a flush draw and also have nothing. You have the odds to call the river bet, as there is a significant chance that neither of them has a pair. Less than 50% chance, probably, but even if you have a 20% chance of being ahead, it makes sense to call.

grjr · #10 08-20-2005, 10:56 PM

Here's the rest of the hand. I posted this hand because a lot of people wouldn't even consider raising the river here. It's not a play that comes up very often but it's something to keep in the back of your mind.

River: (11.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB.
Results in white below:
CO has Ac 9c (high card ace.)
Hero has 6c As (a pair of sixes.)
Hero wins 17.00 BB.