$25 NL PF steal, is this really dumb?

[yellowjack]

My image is really tight as I've raised 3 pots in 4 orbits and taken it down preflop or on the flop/turn.

What I want to know is if you think I should be doing this every time with any two, because of the money in the pot and weakness shown by all players, or if I'm just throwing money away here. I am definitely betting the flop if someone calls me.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($25)
CO ($24.15)
Hero ($28.10)
SB ($5.65)
BB ($20.35)
UTG ($23.65)
UTG+1 ($22.75)
UTG+2 ($24)
MP1 ($73.15)
MP2 ($27.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25. CO posts a blind of $0.35. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.25</font>

[NYCNative]

I'll make that move when I am on the button or close to it and there are no limpers yet. I hate trying to steal the blinds at the small levels because a lot of limpers will call and a lot of times the blinds will defend and you find yourself with crappy holdings barring a miracle flop and you have no idea what your opponents have.

[yvesaint]

Full ring, $25 NL, I don't think it's worth the risk to try and pick up the blinds/limpers. I think you're definitely going to at least get one caller here.

[vulturesrow]

I like it. I think it is good position play. One thing I think that SSNL posters (and I include myself in this) dont do enough of is attack weak limpers. I think the reason is because it is so easy to make money by just playing solid values all the time but I think proper play of this sort has got to add a couple PTBB/100 to your winrate. This is something I am trying to do more of in my own game. So far Ive been happy with the results.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Full ring, $25 NL, I don't think it's worth the risk to try and pick up the blinds/limpers. I think you're definitely going to at least get one caller here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you do get one caller, a lot of time a standard continuation bet will take it down.

I generally do not try a steal when UTG limps; "book play" suggests limping from UTG sometimes with AK, usually with AQ and similar strong hands. Plus, an AA trap by a limping UTG is always something to think about. So, the problem with this steal is that you are likely far behind UTG if he calls you. Even at $25, you have to credit UTG limpers with something like a decent hand.

I wouldn't, as your poll required, call your steal a donk play, but I think you should have waited for a different opportunity.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Full ring, $25 NL, I don't think it's worth the risk to try and pick up the blinds/limpers. I think you're definitely going to at least get one caller here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you do get one caller, a lot of time a standard continuation bet will take it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happens if there are 2 callers? 3? 4? I could see maybe a continuation bet against 2 players taking it down, but not more than that.

I also think that the times you take it down get outweighed by the times when the Villain(s) decides to call your continuation bet. Do you fire another barrel?

I think this sort of play works much better at 6-max. I play on 100 NL 6-max, and switch between very LAG and semi-TAG play. A pre-flop raise there and a continuation bet (especially with position, these moves work much better in LP) will take it down, but I don't think it is going to happen enough times at $25 NL full ring for it to work. ESPECIALLY if there are short stacks at the table.

[yellowjack]

Hero takes it down. $2.25 was risked to win $1.45. Out of the times I get called, I think a continuation bet will take it down 65% of the time. I'm not betting the turn/river.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I'm going to wait until higher limits as someone suggested before I try a play like this again. However, I really don't think UTG has any sort of hand because he didn't raise despite the extra blinds in.

[ajmargarine]

I don't like it in this situation. 4 people in the pot ahead of you is too many. And SB is shortstacked, so if he pushes you pretty much have to call.

I think these moves are OK. But just OK. Limit yourself to 2 limpers max and do it from CO or button. Maybe pick cards you wouldn't mind limping in with anyway like sc's, instead of any two. You always have to play it postflop like you have AA, and sometimes that means firing a second bullet. I would be surprised however if it adds more than 1BB/100 to your win rate at this level.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
If you do get one caller, a lot of time a standard continuation bet will take it down.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree. I do this all the time when I think there's a good chance I'll only get one caller. However with two open limpers and the blinds left, I don't see that happening that often. Usually one person will defend their blinds, one of the limpers will decide "well, now I have pot odds (sic)" and call and the guy with the pocket threes will call almost any raise to see if he gets his set. Next thing I know, I have four people in a $12 pot and there's a good chance even if I do make a continuation that I will get a dreaded smoothcall or CR. No thanks.