Where does the money come from?

[mosdef]

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the two major sources (i think) are:

1. people who understand that their ev is negative but are willing to trade in money in the long term for short term bursts of excitement when they win. these people are known as "gamblers" and are not entirely new to society.

2. the "one-month, it's rigged, i quit" players who think they are winning players because they see poker on tv and think "hey, i can do that!". these people usually sign up, put in $100 and lose it, then never play again. i think that there are TONS of these people.

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I agree with this, except that I think the second category is much larger than the first, and that the average amount donated is probably much closer to $1000 than $100, and that these players probably come back once or twice after their initial run of "bad luck" for another go.

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i'll go along with that. i really have no idea what the actual average magnitudes involved are.

[Warren Whitmore]

Denial.

[Recliner]

I think your assessment is true and I have no problem understanding it but I have a hard time actually believing that it is true because it is such a irrational thought process. Or, I know its true but I refuse to accept as true or possible in my reality, and I think that's where my hang-up comes from. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to empathize with these people. I remember reading an article a while ago called Unskilled and Unaware of It, after which rereading parts of it poker is a prime example that supports the views of the paper.

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Abstract
People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.

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[Jailhouse]

In our reality, the thought process of the loser is completely illogical and irrational and hard to understand. However, different perceptions of reality lead to each person forming their own reality based on such perception.

I don't remember where I read this, but when asked if he would fire nukes at the U.S. if he knew it would mean the utter demolition of Cuba, Fidel Castro said that he would indeed. From our perception on reality, this is totally illogical and irrational but from Castro's view of the world, taking such action would actually be very logical.

Not sure if the connection there is strong, but people will take different actions in life based on their wildly different perceptions of reality. In essence, losing players fail to recognize the reality that you and I percieve. They take irrational action because according to their reality, it is perfectly logical.
-J-house

[bernie]

Where do you thinkn the money in craps, roulette or Pai Gow comes from? You think poker is really that much different?

It's not. Except there is usually more ego/denial involved.

b

[AZnuts]

Since poker is just "gambling" for many players, the money spent is viewed as another "entertainment" expense, like the cost of tickets to a game, dinner out, a road trip etc.

When you're in Vegas for a weekend, most people fully expect to lose some money, and have already mentally planned for it in a sense, just like the cost of their hotel. But, or course, there's always the chance that you'll win some too - which makes it so attractive.

I find it interesting when people "worry" about what others are spending/losing on poker. Do you worry if your neighbor or friend buys a new car, or tickets to the game, or golf lessons, etc.? They are all individual choices.

[mosdef]

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I find it interesting when people "worry" about what others are spending/losing on poker. Do you worry if your neighbor or friend buys a new car, or tickets to the game, or golf lessons, etc.? They are all individual choices.

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i don't disagree with most of your statement, but there is a real leap-of-logic in this last bit. in particular, in poker people hand their money to you and get nothing concrete out of it. now, i know that they can be construed to be "purchasing" entertainment. but the big, big difference is that gambling addiction is very common whereas addiction to purchasing sports tickets, for example, is extremely uncommon (as far as i know). that's the difference.

[AZnuts]

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I find it interesting when people "worry" about what others are spending/losing on poker. Do you worry if your neighbor or friend buys a new car, or tickets to the game, or golf lessons, etc.? They are all individual choices.

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i don't disagree with most of your statement, but there is a real leap-of-logic in this last bit. in particular, in poker people hand their money to you and get nothing concrete out of it. now, i know that they can be construed to be "purchasing" entertainment. but the big, big difference is that gambling addiction is very common whereas addiction to purchasing sports tickets, for example, is extremely uncommon (as far as i know). that's the difference.

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Interestingly, I don't know anyone personally with financial troubles from poker, but have known many people in debt up to their eyeballs on credit cards and loan payments for things they can't really afford. I'm not sure why that's much different - an addiction to buying things, much more common in my opinion. It just seems to be more accepted than gambling.

In any case, my point is I'm not qualified to "judge" people for spending money on a new Jaguar or some poker. Each is responsible for their own decisions.

[mosdef]

i see what you're getting at, but i think you're using the word "addiction" too liberally. mismanagment of money may be more prominent than gambling addiction, and distorted consumer practices may be more common than gambling addiction, but i don't think shopping is addictive in the same way that gambling and drugs are addictive. spending over-your-head seems to me to be more of a symptom of distorted values where you have bought into the myth that the more material you collect the happier you'll be. gambling is addictive in the releases-chemicals-in-your-brain definition of addiction.

[imported_bingobazza]

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It is delusion that pays winning players rent. Without delusion the poker industry (and probably the gambling industry as a whole) would most likely collapse.



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nail on the head....bullseye....bingo

Bingo