Trouble with the bubble, and then some more.Comments please?

stragf · #1 07-01-2005, 10:13 AM

Below is one of the games that I have gone out on the bubble. I can generally make it here, and then ???
In this one I maybe could/should have pushed but I min raised. I was also shortstacked.When he came back over the top, did I make the correct play?

300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13541190) - Thu Jun 30
18:55:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 13971 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: GFS (910)(Hero)
Seat 7: Devrin (2315)
Seat 8: gu008 (3101)
Seat 9: DGip1106 (1674)
gu008 posts small blind (150)
DGip1106 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GFS309 [ 7h, 7c ]
GFS309 raises (600) to 600
Devrin folds.
gu008 raises (850) to 1000
DGip1106 folds.
GFS309 calls (310)
GFS309 is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $2120 with GFS309
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9s, Qh, 6c ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2120 | Side Pot 1: 90
Board: [ 9s Qh 6c 9c Ts ]
GFS309 balance 0, lost 910 [ 7h 7c ] [ two pairs, nines and sevens --
Qh,9s,9c,7h,7c ]
Devrin balance 2315, didn't bet (folded)
gu008 balance 4311, bet 1000, collected 2210, net +1210 [ Qd Kh ] [ two pairs,
queens and nines -- Kh,Qd,Qh,9s,9c ]
DGip1106 balance 1374, lost 300 (folded)

In this next hand, I'm off the bubble. Different placement, same result, and I'm out on a hand I'm not certain I played well> Probably should have checked when the King came on the flop??

300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13558507) - Fri Jul 01
08:53:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 13853 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: adamj217 (5535)
Seat 2: GFS309 (1020)(Hero)
Seat 5: skins37 (1445)
adamj217 posts small blind (150)
GFS309 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GFS309 [ 8c, 8h ]
skins37 folds.
adamj217 raises (450) to 600
GFS309 calls (300)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3c, 3d, Ks ]
adamj217 checks.
GFS309 bets (420)
GFS309 is all-In.
adamj217 calls (420)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Qs ]
Creating Main Pot with $2040 with GFS309
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2040 |
Board: [ 3c 3d Ks 6h Qs ]
adamj217 balance 6555, bet 1020, collected 2040, net +1020 [ Kd 8s ] [ two
pairs, kings and threes -- Kd,Ks,Qs,3c,3d ]
GFS309 balance 0, lost 1020 [ 8c 8h ] [ two pairs, eights and threes --
Ks,8c,8h,3c,3d ]
skins37 balance 1445, didn't bet (folded)

the_joker · #2 07-01-2005, 10:16 AM

Just push both hands pre-flop. In general, once you have around 10BB left either push or fold.

xLukex · #3 07-01-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Below is one of the games that I have gone out on the bubble. I can generally make it here, and then ???
In this one I maybe could/should have pushed but I min raised. I was also shortstacked.When he came back over the top, did I make the correct play?

300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13541190) - Thu Jun 30
18:55:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 13971 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: GFS (910)(Hero)
Seat 7: Devrin (2315)
Seat 8: gu008 (3101)
Seat 9: DGip1106 (1674)
gu008 posts small blind (150)
DGip1106 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GFS309 [ 7h, 7c ]
GFS309 raises (600) to 600
Devrin folds.
gu008 raises (850) to 1000
DGip1106 folds.
GFS309 calls (310)
GFS309 is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $2120 with GFS309
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9s, Qh, 6c ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2120 | Side Pot 1: 90
Board: [ 9s Qh 6c 9c Ts ]
GFS309 balance 0, lost 910 [ 7h 7c ] [ two pairs, nines and sevens --
Qh,9s,9c,7h,7c ]
Devrin balance 2315, didn't bet (folded)
gu008 balance 4311, bet 1000, collected 2210, net +1210 [ Qd Kh ] [ two pairs,
queens and nines -- Kh,Qd,Qh,9s,9c ]
DGip1106 balance 1374, lost 300 (folded)

In this next hand, I'm off the bubble. Different placement, same result, and I'm out on a hand I'm not certain I played well> Probably should have checked when the King came on the flop??

300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13558507) - Fri Jul 01
08:53:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 13853 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 1: adamj217 (5535)
Seat 2: GFS309 (1020)(Hero)
Seat 5: skins37 (1445)
adamj217 posts small blind (150)
GFS309 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GFS309 [ 8c, 8h ]
skins37 folds.
adamj217 raises (450) to 600
GFS309 calls (300)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3c, 3d, Ks ]
adamj217 checks.
GFS309 bets (420)
GFS309 is all-In.
adamj217 calls (420)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Qs ]
Creating Main Pot with $2040 with GFS309
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2040 |
Board: [ 3c 3d Ks 6h Qs ]
adamj217 balance 6555, bet 1020, collected 2040, net +1020 [ Kd 8s ] [ two
pairs, kings and threes -- Kd,Ks,Qs,3c,3d ]
GFS309 balance 0, lost 1020 [ 8c 8h ] [ two pairs, eights and threes --
Ks,8c,8h,3c,3d ]
skins37 balance 1445, didn't bet (folded)

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to push before the flop in both of these hands. You are not even close to aggressive enough here.

And don't min-raise when you have 3x BBs. You should almost never min-raise to begin with.

liucipher · #4 07-01-2005, 10:18 AM

Push both preflop. Nothing horrendous given what you did decide to do.

stragf · #5 07-01-2005, 10:29 AM

Thanks all. The consensus is to push both times. At what point would you make this call. In other words, would you make it with 6 players, or basically Four on in?

Scuba Chuck · #6 07-01-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks all. The consensus is to push both times. At what point would you make this call. In other words, would you make it with 6 players, or basically Four on in?

[/ QUOTE ]

OP, do a search on coinflips (or coinflip debates). You will find your answer. Much has been discussed. But the general answer is that calling should only be done with 5 hands.

Edit: Maybe when you say the word "call" you mean the decision to push. If that is your point, then disregard my comments.

Phil Van Sexton · #7 07-01-2005, 10:46 AM

I think you played #2 perfectly. There's no point in pushing when your fold equity is 0%. Call and push/call any flop, which is exactly what you did.

If he hadn't flopped a King, there is a chance he folds on the flop. There's zero chance he folds preflop.

I know this play is overused and you aren't first to act on the flop, but in this case it was correct, IMO.