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  #21  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:35 AM
DMBFan23 DMBFan23 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

jjacky,

if you can agree that it's a good play if the players will let you isolate habitually, then I will agree that it is a bad play if the other players will often interfere with your isolations.

but I have to disagree that you will "often" be 3 bet, and I assert that if you are "often" 3 bet, it can't be by a hand that is "clearly superior" to QJo
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:40 AM
ihardlyknowher ihardlyknowher is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
It's not horrible. He's about a 3-to-2 favorite over a random hand. That doesn't matter anyways because we're not all-in. Villian he's attempting to isolate plays poorly HU and that's a good enough reason for me to take a shot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, I agree with you here. But do you still think it is correct, given the way Hero describes is image?

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, my image to this point has to be pretty loose and aggressive, as I've been getting good hands and attempting to isolate against loose players, with fairly good results.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could be a case of dipping his hand in the cookie jar one too many times.
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  #23  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:44 AM
SeaEagle SeaEagle is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
I won't disagree that this is likely a common problem but, again you're making an assumption that has no factual/evidential basis.

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on one hand, it appears that OP is not a very good post flop player. Iso-raising QJo is a +EV play for a small portion of players. For the majority, they're putting extra chips on a hand that's hard to play well.

In this hand, the flop is a clear fold. The iso-raise didn't work and hero could well be drawing to runners.

If you're going to bluff at this pot, the turn is the place to do it. You can safely fold to a c/r and, if you're just called, you probably have 7 or more outs to win on the river.

The river raise has 0% believability. Are we supposed to think hero checked through the turn with a vulnerable top-pair? I would expect to get called by every single hand that beats me in this situation.
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  #24  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:54 AM
chief444 chief444 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

The way it played out BB I'd expect to hold AK very often. He isn't checking the turn with an overpair. I'd expect this to get him to fold often enough to be profitable...even considering SB will call occasionally despite having shown no strenth throughout the hand.
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  #25  
Old 06-20-2005, 12:10 PM
SeaEagle SeaEagle is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

You're putting in 2 to win 7.5. You expect to fold out both players over 1/4 of the time? If you were villian (or sb), what hand do you put hero on? If you were villian, would you fold AK in this situation?

Also, what hand to you put sb on? How often do you think sb has part of the board or a PP and is seeing the SD?
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  #26  
Old 06-20-2005, 12:22 PM
crunchy1 crunchy1 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
In this hand, the flop is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
11-to-1 with 2-overs and a backdoor straight-draw is NOT a CLEAR fold.
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  #27  
Old 06-20-2005, 12:23 PM
crunchy1 crunchy1 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
If you were villian, would you fold AK in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes - because I wouldn't be expecting Hero to be raising 2 players on a pure bluff. I don't think that many 2/4 TAGs are calling A-high in this situation.
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  #28  
Old 06-20-2005, 12:27 PM
crunchy1 crunchy1 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
But do you still think it is correct, given the way Hero describes is image?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that table image really matters a whole lot at the Party 2/4. Not enough players are actually paying close enough attention.

The TAG in this hand might have been - and decided to defend against Hero's likely weak holding. If I truly felt this was the case - I may become a little more selective about iso-raising when that particular TAG is in a blind.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, my image to this point has to be pretty loose and aggressive, as I've been getting good hands and attempting to isolate against loose players, with fairly good results.

[/ QUOTE ] This could be a case of dipping his hand in the cookie jar one too many times.

[/ QUOTE ]
If a table is letting me use my favorable relative position to isolate weak players - there is no way that I'm slowing down!
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  #29  
Old 06-20-2005, 12:53 PM
mmbt0ne mmbt0ne is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
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In this hand, the flop is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
11-to-1 with 2-overs and a backdoor straight-draw is NOT a CLEAR fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often are our overs good against a preflop 3-bettor from the BB with a limper, LP raiser, and SB calling?

This reeks of reverse implied odds.
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  #30  
Old 06-20-2005, 01:02 PM
chief444 chief444 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff raising the river

[ QUOTE ]
You're putting in 2 to win 7.5. You expect to fold out both players over 1/4 of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do.
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