55 hand

Dudd · #1 06-16-2005, 10:17 PM

What does everyone think about this one? The preflop limpers had stats of 40/13 and 60/3, respectively, and the raiser appeared solid at 16/7, and was fairly aggressive on the flop. Anyways, what does everyone think of the hand? I'm not worried about preflop, but does anyone think that my value bets are a bit thin?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets all in (1.37), MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Nick C · #2 06-16-2005, 11:25 PM

Preflop: I think this is fine.

Flop: I like the raise. I'd be hoping for more folds, but what can you do?

Turn: Even if UTG+1 has you beat, which he certainly may not, especially given that he's just finishing off his stack, I like raising for value and protection against your remaining opponents.

River: I'd probably just check behind, but I had a lousy session last night despite finding a great table, and I guess I'm feeling a bit timid. On the double-paired board, I do think there's a good chance ace-high will call, and I also think that's probably what MP2 has. Better and worse pocket pairs will also most likely call (well, except 22, unless you're really lucky). Anyone with a 7 will checkraise, and I suppose maybe MP1 has one of those, but I see no reason to assume that, and with two opponents, the chances that he'll checkraise without a better hand do go down somewhat, and I'm thinking folding to a checkraise would be easy enough.

Hmm. I guess I like the river bet.

Harv72b · #3 06-17-2005, 01:32 AM

Preflop: You're not worried about the preflop, you say, but this is a very borderline play IMO. You don't have nearly the odds to play for your set after coldcalling, and if you do hit it your position relative to the PFR (and likely bettor in later rounds) sucks. And there are too many people in the pot already for you to win very often UI. I think this is a losing play over the long term, and I absolutely love to get into pots with pocket pairs.

Standard raise given the texture of the flop. Having two coldcallers would normally be my cue to check through the turn & fold the river UI, but given the numbers you have on those two that does not necessarily mean that you're behind.

I like the turn raise after UTG+1 decides that last $1.37 is burning a hole in the felt. Build the side pot--I see far too many people neglect to do that after an all in, and I believe that is a HUGE hole in most peoples' games.

I normally check behind on this river, but given that one of your opponents is likely to be in the hand with anything & everything and you're fairly likely to be called by an A with the double-paired board, there is probably some value in the bet.

Well played postflop...I'm still not completely sold on the preflop call, tho.

oreogod · #4 06-17-2005, 01:43 AM

MP2 with the TAG stats calling u down is not good. I probably fold this preflop...due to Tag-ish raiser, and position if I do hit, I can not expect to get the maximum for my investment...and you are going to need to make up bets for calling 2 cold if u do hit your set. Not the best situation.

Dudd · #5 06-17-2005, 01:53 AM

I'm getting 4 to 1 on my call, assuming both limpers call and no one raises behind me, which wasn't happening much at all. By calling, I also could possibly enourage another cold caller or two, and then I'd only have to make up a couple more bets to give me my odds, which I didn't think would be a problem against a TAG and two calling stations. I play fairly tight preflop, around a 15 VP$IP, and I've been trying to locate areas where I could loosen up a bit. This isn't one of them?

Also, with the TAG calling me down, doesn't that show weakness? His aggression postflop was over 2, so I fully expected to be ahead of him, reasoning that he would be raising with an overpair, and unlikely to have hit the raggedy flop after raising preflop.

oreogod · #6 06-17-2005, 01:58 AM

This should help:

Basic Primer on Pairs and suited connectors

My beef with the hand:

The Tagish raiser after limpers, your position to him, then him calling u down to the end in a multiway pot. All together Im less inclined to like being in this hand with 55. If it was MP2 that went all in I then I'd like this much better.

If you tell me you won the hand, Id be very surprised. If u did, that TAG has no reason calling down.

Sure its weakness him calling down, but maybe his hand isnt super strong. But the fact is, he likes it enough to call down. If hes calling down with AK or AQ, hes an idiot.

Harv72b · #7 06-17-2005, 02:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, with the TAG calling me down, doesn't that show weakness? His aggression postflop was over 2, so I fully expected to be ahead of him, reasoning that he would be raising with an overpair, and unlikely to have hit the raggedy flop after raising preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This only shows weakness if the TAG has the same read that you do on the two limpers, and/or feels that you aren't capable of raising him on the flop with an underpair.

I intimated at it above, but any time you have a paired flop without a lot of draws available and it goes bet/raise/cold-call, that sets off alarm bells in a huge way. A very significant portion of the time the coldcaller is holding trips or a flopped boat; it's less likely here because you know that the two limpers are loose/passive calling stations, but if the PFR doesn't know that, that could slow him down with an overpair.

oreogod · #8 06-17-2005, 02:04 AM

Harv said it much better, definitly a more helpful response. Nice.

PS. [censored] yeah! Im a vetran now.

Dudd · #9 06-17-2005, 02:09 AM

For the record, I did win the hand, the raiser had AJ and the all in guy had TJ for the turned gutshot draw + overcards which didn't hit. But, I have a tendency to only post the hands that I lose, and I felt that this play was fairly marginal enough to warrant posting. Guess I was right.

oreogod · #10 06-17-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the raiser had AJ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst TAG E-V-E-R.