Awkward 99 Hand (Party Super)

[dmk]

I was completely lost here. Button is tournament chip leader and isn't afraid to move his chips around. The raiser is putting out 800 and leaving 4k behind. I felt like calling was wrong because button could come over the top w/ a lot of holdings, raising commits me to at least 5k (basically all-in), and folding seems too weak.

Thoughts?

***** Hand History for Game 2203961445 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13070876 Level:9 Blinds (200/400) - Monday, June 13, 23:54:11 EDT 2005
Table Super Monday(360308) Table #11 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: lilzek ( $1610 )
Seat 2: teqbuster ( $5124 )
Seat 3: kungfoo49 ( $9030 )
Seat 4: dmk4y ( $8653 )
Seat 6: FilmGod ( $1690 )
Seat 8: Beat_Hackers ( $24070 )
Seat 9: slappyu1 ( $8375 )
Seat 5: pskurp ( $2845 )
Seat 7: Evets_Olegna ( $12187 )
Trny:13070876 Level:9
Blinds (200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dmk4y [ 9s 9c ]
teqbuster raises [800].
kungfoo49 folds.
dmk4y ...???

[dmk]

bump?

[PrayingMantis]

Yes, it is somewhat of a tricky spot. I think pushing is an overkill, raises in between are problematic, and folding is indeed too weak. I don't think calling is as bad as you say. If button is actually capable of pushing behind with A LOT of hands, like you say, then clearly if it's folded to you after he pushes you can make a big +EV call. So if he is super aggresssive at this point, I can see the merits of calling and seeing how it developes. Of course if button only calls or folds you now have a nice PP, with position (at least against the original raiser), to play some post-flop.

[EvanCharuk]

[ QUOTE ]
I was completely lost here. Button is tournament chip leader and isn't afraid to move his chips around. The raiser is putting out 800 and leaving 4k behind. I felt like calling was wrong because button could come over the top w/ a lot of holdings, raising commits me to at least 5k (basically all-in), and folding seems too weak.

Thoughts?

***** Hand History for Game 2203961445 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13070876 Level:9 Blinds (200/400) - Monday, June 13, 23:54:11 EDT 2005
Table Super Monday(360308) Table #11 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: lilzek ( $1610 )
Seat 2: teqbuster ( $5124 )
Seat 3: kungfoo49 ( $9030 )
Seat 4: dmk4y ( $8653 )
Seat 6: FilmGod ( $1690 )
Seat 8: Beat_Hackers ( $24070 )
Seat 9: slappyu1 ( $8375 )
Seat 5: pskurp ( $2845 )
Seat 7: Evets_Olegna ( $12187 )
Trny:13070876 Level:9
Blinds (200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dmk4y [ 9s 9c ]
teqbuster raises [800].
kungfoo49 folds.
dmk4y ...???

[/ QUOTE ]

I would simply just call as I think it would probrably be the best move. You have the aggressive raiser on the button, so if he pops it up, as you claim he is able to do with almost any holding, then you can see the action of the intial bettor and fold if he would come over the top with a re-raise.

But that's how I would play it and probrably why I haven't made a final table in the Super Tourney's.

[Kronon]

Calling is to weak, you will have no idea what to do against a raise, and you might get hands like TJ to play, which you definitely want out.

A normal preflop raise of 3-4BB, and then fold to a reraise unless you have a good reason not to. Does not seem to complicated to me.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
A normal preflop raise of 3-4BB, and then fold to a reraise unless you have a good reason not to. Does not seem to complicated to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was already a PF raise ahead of you. I can't see how a 3-4BB raise after that miniraise is a good move, unless you're talking about 3-4 times HIS raise, which is putting almost half your stack in the middle, not a great move either if you're planning to fold to a rereraise (edit: OK, it's not half your stack, but a big enough reraise will put you in a pretty awkward position here, IMO, with this particular hand).

[schwza]

i'd make it 2200 and plan on folding to a push from anyone but utg. even if the button has been pretty aggro, it would take a lot of guts to play over the top of a utg raise and a reraise without AK/TT+.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
it would take a lot of guts to play over the top of a utg raise and a reraise without AK/TT+.


[/ QUOTE ]

This might be true, but it is definitely not the original read we have on button, according to the OP.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it would take a lot of guts to play over the top of a utg raise and a reraise without AK/TT+.


[/ QUOTE ]

This might be true, but it is definitely not the original read we have on button, according to the OP.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Button is tournament chip leader and isn't afraid to move his chips around.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is all we know. for a lot of people (well, me, anyway), when i have a lot of chips i will open tons of pots from any position, and may even resteal liberally, but when the action goes raise-reraise i'm not going to try to move somebody off a hand. if that is not people experiences with big stacks or OP's feeling about this guy in particular, i'm all ears.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button is tournament chip leader and isn't afraid to move his chips around.

[/ QUOTE ] this is all we know. for a lot of people (well, me, anyway), when i have a lot of chips i will open tons of pots from any position, and may even resteal liberally, but when the action goes raise-reraise i'm not going to try to move somebody off a hand. if that is not people experiences with big stacks or OP's feeling about this guy in particular, i'm all ears.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that there's a significantly smaller chance big stack will raise over the top after a raise and a reraise, than after a raise and a flat call (that is - with a wide range of hands). However, that's what could make flat calling actually better - you might induce a very aggressive big stack to go over the top with some crap, and if UTG folds you can make a very profitable call. A raise might isolate you against UTG, in a situation where you'll never be more than a slight favorite or a big dog, IMO, if he gives you any action.