What do you think?

Mike Cuneo · #1 05-13-2005, 05:15 AM

Recently playing in my regular NL game, $5-5 blinds buy in 1-300. I am sitting on about 500 and in the SB and look down at KQ. A friend sitting at the other end of the table makes it $30 to go and i fling in a call. I check dark and we see a flop of Q Q 2. My friend moves in for about 250 and I beat him into the pot. He shows KK and I take it down. This sparked a debate about how "lucky" I was (on that hand no denying it) and it made my friend upset because of how I played it (checking dark.) Everyone at the table, me included, told him that moving in there would only get him called down by hands that beat him. Sure KK losing to KQ is a rotten beat but why overbet the $65 pot with 250 when you'll only get called by trips or a full house? Am I right here?

xorbie · #2 05-13-2005, 05:25 AM

You're preflop call is pretty awful, but his play is just as bad.

Rotating Rabbit · #3 05-13-2005, 05:42 AM

Yes

TheGame1020 · #4 05-13-2005, 09:35 AM

Hi, I am the so called "villain" in this hand. I actually normally post at another forum but frequent 2+2 often so why not join!? I came home after our night of poker to see this post and I feel like I should give my side of the story on this hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Recently playing in my regular NL game, $5-5 blinds buy in 1-300. I am sitting on about 500 and in the SB and look down at KQ. A friend sitting at the other end of the table makes it $30 to go and i fling in a call. I check dark and we see a flop of Q Q 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember the flop was actually QQ4 not QQ2. Thats not really the point though, the point is the preflop raise is a horrible call. Not that I didn't want action on KK, but calling a raise with KQ off out of position on the big blind is absurd. Also, the poster of this hand knows I am a very tight player AK, AQ, QQ, KK, AA all have him crushed. Of course, calling a raise 6x the big blind with KQo is a -EV play! The dark check is wrong as well. Also, this would not be the hand to do it with. Dark checking with obviously dominated cards??? I don't see what this accomplishes. (never was a fan of the D check anyways) Maybe dark check your middle pocket pair if you put me on AK (or other highcards) to see if you hit your set and the A or K flops and trap me. This is just absurd.

[ QUOTE ]
My friend moves in for about 250 and I beat him into the pot. He shows KK and I take it down. This sparked a debate about how "lucky" I was (on that hand no denying it) and it made my friend upset because of how I played it (checking dark.) Everyone at the table, me included, told him that moving in there would only get him called down by hands that beat him. Sure KK losing to KQ is a rotten beat but why overbet the $65 pot with 250 when you'll only get called by trips or a full house? Am I right here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted I did overbet the pot I won't deny that. But I had my reasons. I feared an ace on the turn and river, I also don't have a problem winning this pot now. Thats just the way I am, I was already up 100 dollars on the night and didn't mind taking it down, even for 25 bucks. I can't put him on KQ and he is a reckless player (not bad) but reckless likes to see alot of flops. A few hands before this he called 60 dollars preflop with 68 suited. Which is obviously incorrect! Sure I overbet it, but thats just how i play in this game. Everyone is in the pot drawing calling 20 dollar bets or 30 dollar bets on all kinds of draws. I don't want to get beat by a draw, so thats how I play there, not all in every flop but when I feel I need to. If someone wants to call go ahead cause I will usually have a strong hand. Of course there was no draw on this flop but I just don't like giving a free card ever, (unless i flop the nuts)and in my mind i would be giving him a free card. This time it was not correct but it most certainly does not justify an absurd call preflop. KQ and AJ unsuited in a raise pot are usually worthless.

Poker talk aside, I am good friends with this poster and we will still be friends after this post LOL. Just some lively discussion!

LuvDemNutz · #5 05-13-2005, 09:45 AM

I'm sorry but betting $250 into a $65 pot because you fear 3 outs, when you know you will only get called by a hand that is crushing you, doesn't sound "correct" to me.

Betting $40-$65 accomplishes the same thing if you want to adequately "charge" someone to draw to an Ace.

iceman5 · #6 05-13-2005, 09:49 AM

So basically, your reason for pushing all in with a huge overbet is that "thats how I play in this game"?

Bad Bad Bad.

His preflop call is horrible, but there is no need to push all in there. You win $65 alot of the time, but you lose the $250 EVERY time you get called.

LetYouDown · #7 05-13-2005, 09:53 AM

I love the push. Even if you get called and he has K-Q, you still have 1 out.

TheGame1020 · #8 05-13-2005, 10:29 AM

I wouldn't have folded KK against this player. I just can't possibly put him on QK as well. Overbetting the pot was dumb yeah, but that usually works there since no one ever folds their draws. This wasn't the correct hand to do it on. I agree with that. I just can't see myself folding KK here period reguardless against this player. I felt like I had the best hand and overbet it but I probably wouldn't have folded it.

Also, I don't lose 250 every time. Say I have AQ, there is a time I get paid. I just wanted to get all my money with the best hand... atleast preflop it was the best. To get a board like that with QK sucks for me, but I guess I made it worse with a horrible bet. Though the preflop call still is BS. The hands this person was hitting tonight made me think "he could never have it" and I overbet and paid for it. Hey, thats poker! BUT THE DARK CHECK STILL IS INCORRECT!

LetYouDown · #9 05-13-2005, 10:32 AM

What draw do you have on a board of Q-Q-4? I didn't see any mention of suits.

TheGame1020 · #10 05-13-2005, 10:50 AM

No draws. I've just seen too many suckouts in this game. I'm just so used to betting big in this game to get drawing hands out. This game is a bit absurd, I don't think anyone ever folds a flush draw even to an all in for all their chips. I won't argue I made a mistake here! I'm just saying calling a 6x BB raise out of position is simply horrible. I overbet it, I understand but that call preflop to me is just insane [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]