A4s, no position

[PrayingMantis]

$109 buy-in. Villain looks like a reasonable player, open limped a few times before, not to loose though, and somewhat aggressive. I didn't see him make any big bluffs or reckless/big calls. My image is similar, I guess, maybe a bit more aggressive.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t820)
CO (t605)
Button (t1775)
Hero (t2045)
BB (t955)
UTG (t2130)
UTG+1 (t2245)
MP1 (t2070)
MP2 (t2290)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t200) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t150</font>, Button folds, Hero calls t150, BB folds.

Turn: (t500) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t400</font>, Hero calls t400.

River: (t1300) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t700</font>, Hero calls t700.

Final Pot: t2700

[Jason Strasser]

PM,

I think your line is decent.

The problem is that you have not really forced your opponent to define his hand. If I decided to call the flop bet (which I wont always), I'll definitely lead this turn. Check-call lead turn is a very strong line and will force your opponent to define his hand further. If he just calls, then I vote for a river check-call or maybe a small blocking bet just in case he'll look u up with a king.

You'll find these hands easier to play if you exercise some sort of pot control. Leading the turn is good because you can really give a draw a bad price and you can also really see how much your opponent likes his hand.

The flop call is a bit shady as well given your read of the opponent, but its not the most interesting part of this hand (the turn is imo).

The more I think about it, the more I think your line isnt bad but I think a turn lead makes the hand easier to play.

-Jason

[JFM]

I realy think you need to be more agresive her.
Lead out on the flop and see what happens.
In this case he might have someting like J9 or Ax like you so i would probably
want to see the showdown.
But it´s better that he´s the one caling your bets then vice versa.

[JFM]

Like your way too but why not take
control on the flop?

[Prime Time]

Classic way ahead, way behind.
When A hits turn, I play it just like you.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
But it´s better that he´s the one caling your bets then vice versa.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are way over-simplifying this game. There are times to bet and times to call. Of course that "taking control" is the default in most usual circumstances. However, There are many situations where "taking control" by betting is significantly less EV than other ways of action.

Maximizing EV is much more important then just "taking control". If it was only about "taking control" I wouldn't be posting this hand. I'm not saying that betting out in some point or other in this hand is a mistake, but I just don't agree with saying "take control", without giving a deep thought to the meaning of the word "control". And I don't think you've been giving it too much thought.

[PrayingMantis]

Good points Jason.

Of course, on the flop I sometimes lead, sometimes check, sometimes I might just give it up or check-raise. It depends.

On the turn I was thinking about leading into him, but realized that by doing that I'm pretty much giving up on any chance of letting him keep firing at me, representing an ace. And I don't think I can really practice good pot-control here, as any reasonable turn bet will make him fold hands that are behind, and probably raise (call?) hands that have me burried. By that I, again, lose the chance of winning anything from hands that are behind and might not improve on the river. Of course, it's not the easy way, but I think I can handle tough situations later on. Obviously, it's a way-ahead way-behind situation. I'm worried about some Ax that kill me, but I don't see better way to play against them.

On the river I was thinking about betting out like you suggest, and it's not a bad line probably. But again, I suspect letting him fire out again is somewhat better. I would have found myself in a tougher situation if the river bet was bigger, I think. I felt that with the sizes of the bets, all along this hand, most chances I have the only ace here. I'm still thinking about this hand.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Classic way ahead, way behind.
When A hits turn, I play it just like you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, way ahead way behind is exactly how I'm thinking about this hand. These hands become complicated especially against a player that I don't think will call too much with the draws he might have.

[JFM]

Your absoloutly right but why do you think there is more +EV calling him down then
bet the flopp and check/call the turn? (with is what i do most of the time)
If he checks he most likly has a week A or something you have beaten.
If you think i´m way of then please correct me

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
Your absoloutly right but why do you think there is more +EV calling him down then
bet the flopp and check/call the turn? (with is what i do most of the time)
If he checks he most likly has a week A or something you have beaten.
If you think i´m way of then please correct me

[/ QUOTE ]

Leading the flop sais "I have a weak ace" to most people. The real problem with saying that on the flop is that a savvy player can call and take the pot away from you on the turn in most cases. (For the rest of this paragraph, I am talking in general, since you don't know on the flop another ace is coming on the turn). Say you bet and get called, how do you feel now? Your kicker is useless, and you have met resistance. On the turn do you bet again? If so what do you do if it is raised? Do you check? If so what do you do when it is bet back at you? You could push, representing a strong hand, but then you are giving good odds to call. You may push a few better hands out, but you will get a lot of calls here due to the shallowness of the stack.

I like check calling this from the turn on. The flop I sometimes call, sometimes fold.

I'm not crazy about Strassa's line here because I think PM's hand is too in the middle for it. I like that line as an alternative to check raising the flop with a middle pair (if you decide to play that hand) and when you have a bigger ace or full house. Leading the turn after check calling can look really weak to an opponent. Since the top card paired, villain knows that in PMs eyes, he is less likely to have an ace, and may be betting second pair or worse. The problem in this specific case is that if PM leads, he cannot feel good if he gets raised. He has now made the pot big, and has put himself in a difficult spot where there are good chance of folding or calling incorrectly. Sure, villain may passively pay off with second pair, but he may not. There is a much greater chance of villain continuing to value bet a lesser hand or bluff here if he checks IMO. Leading the river is certainly a though, since there is a good chance villain checks behind with a lesser hand, but if villain has a bigger ace (or better) he will put you to the test.

The line PM took protects him a lot. It is very unlikely that a better hand will push here, since it will be looking for value, unless PM bets or raises at some point. If faced with a push in this line, PM can call eith relative ease. True, he may go broke there, but it would be unusual (though not unheard of) to see a better hand pushing there (especially since that means overbetting the pot by a fair ammount).