I thought I played this a bit weak, but the table coaches...

Sidekick · #1 10-26-2004, 03:54 PM

Table has been running about 45% seeing the flop. Quite a few of the players seem to have pretty loose preflop calling standards.

Reads: UTG has loose calling standards and leans more towards LAG than LAP. UTG+1 has loose calling standards, but leans more towards being passive.

I personally thought I went a bit weak on the turn play here, but at the end of the hand there were a few comments made. Normally I ignore them, but the last two days have not been the best for me... so I thought I'd come to the good old 2+2 forums for a quick reality check.

All comments on all streets are greatly appreciated.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

pudley4 · #2 10-26-2004, 04:02 PM

What exactly did they say?

You played it just as I would have. Taking the free card is fine, but I like betting because I picked up some more big outs (with the gutshot). Plus it's fun to bet.

3-betting the turn is useless because you need to hit the river to win (UTG has you beat right now), and you may be raised again by UTG, and you only have 2 opponents so even if all 18 (9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s, 3 9's, 3 J's, 3 A's) of your outs are clean, you're barely getting enough value (if we discount the J and A outs by 1/2, you end up with 15 outs, which is basically break-even against 2 opponents). Plus you can fold the river here if you miss.

Alobar · #3 10-26-2004, 04:04 PM

looks completely standard to me

raise pre flop cuz your hand is pimpin

raise the flop cuz your hand is pimpin

bet the turn for value cuz youve got 4 peeps and a bazillion outs

bet the river for value cuz the little pussies checked to you and youve got the straight

if anyone said anything after this hand was played, they are weak n00bs

realbad101 · #4 10-26-2004, 04:07 PM

I would have a hard time calling this weak. The only street where you didn't bet / raise as much as possible was the turn. If your ace is not a clean out, then you have 12 outs (9 flush cards and the three other 9's) and need 3 callers to raise, which you don't have. So, no. It could be argued that you should have taken your free card on 4th street, since you are still drawing to a ~27% shot at the pot.

Fat Nicky · #5 10-26-2004, 04:11 PM

I like your play on every street.

chesspain · #6 10-26-2004, 04:18 PM

I'm probably taking the free card on the turn, since the odds seem slim that I'm going to: take the pot down here, get everyone to call, or get any pair to fold. Although I certainly like my flush + gutshot outs, I think that the both the A and J overcard outs have to be discounted, since a J completes a turned OESD and an A could make someone's kicker. And I have no interest in trying to get a free showdown, since the odds of A-high winning here seem pretty remote.

lu_hawk · #7 10-26-2004, 05:04 PM

I would take the free card on the turn.

nepenthe · #8 10-26-2004, 05:12 PM

Go ahead and take the free card at the turn. You earned it and you most likely need to improve to win against this many opponents.

Sidekick · #9 10-26-2004, 06:02 PM

Thanks for the actual heartfelt laugh Alobar! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I loved this reply!

Thank you all for the input! Since I'm trying to get my aggression up, it is nice to know that a good percentage thought (at least if I read the later responses correctly...) that I was a bit too aggressive on the Turn.

Thanks again to all those that replied. These critiques really help me keep my game in line and improve. All the comments are really apprecited! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thomsen · #10 10-26-2004, 06:17 PM

Weak ????!??!?

Ohh no me friend - maybe yo were little too agressive ? dunno think i might have slowed down on the turn - if they are decent players and have a hand, they will be looking to checkraise if the flush doesnt come....

Table coaches - feckem theyre losers, dorks, wimps, chickens - tell them to log off and stop using their mommys creditcard.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]