You guys might find this thread interesting...

[Ed Miller]

From Matthew Hilger's forum:

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/~...pic.php?t=6682

[bernie]

How do you find the time for all the forums you're on? I have a hard enough time just keeping up with all the stuff on here.

Interesting thread, btw. Some good ideas to ponder.

b

[Ed Miller]

How do you find the time for all the forums you're on? I have a hard enough time just keeping up with all the stuff on here.

Hehe, ya. I've been foruming basically full-time for the last week or two in support of the book. That and I've got nothing better to do with my time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
That and I've got nothing better to do with my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

um....You could always, oh, I don't know, Play Cards! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

How often do you get out to play now? Seems you played more when you had to drive for 2+hours than when you have it right in your backyard. Is it the lack of scratching and clawing to get to the cardroom that takes some of the zip out of it? Knowing that you fought that hard to get there that you're going to damn well make it worth your while? haha j/k [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Btw...do you happen to remember the title of the post where you bluffed the river with an unmade JT? It was quite awhile ago, it was at mucks if i remember it right, but it was a helluva move. I'd like to bookmark that hand/thread.

Lady Marmalade to ya!

b

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising UTG with 22 is a little tougher to quantify. But remember that calling with 22 UTG is correct in many games, and when it is wrong, it isn't a big error (on the $0.05-$0.25 scale). So let's assume that calling is break-even... what is raising on top of that? Well, it is at most $2...

[/ QUOTE ]
Your statement here is wrong. It assumes that your mistake can only "cost" you when you lose. In this case, if you raise 22 and end up playing against only 2 opponents, it is very likely you will end up winning a smaller pot than if you had limped and got 4 or 5 opponents. So you find more "cost" to raising when you consider what you will make post flop when you hit your set.

I'm not saying that raising 22 UTG is more than a $2 mistake in a 2-4 game, but it is wrong to say that it cannot be more than $2.

[Ed Miller]

I'm not saying that raising 22 UTG is more than a $2 mistake in a 2-4 game, but it is wrong to say that it cannot be more than $2.

I agree, you're correct. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Ed Miller]

Btw...do you happen to remember the title of the post where you bluffed the river with an unmade JT?

I found it here.

How often do you get out to play now?

Well, I wasn't playing much at all while I was writing the book. I was just trying to get it out ASAP. Now I'm on vacation. I'll get back to playing once my vacation ends. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'm happy with my free time. I'm catching up on some of the reading I should have been doing instead of wasting my time at the poker table. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, you're correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
So why did you say it then? Wait, I know why. Anybody dumb enough to frequent a poker forum other than 2+2 deserves to be misled. I like it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Randy Burgess]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that raising 22 UTG is more than a $2 mistake in a 2-4 game, but it is wrong to say that it cannot be more than $2.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're going to squeeze ourselves onto the head of the pin right next to all those angels, then strictly speaking, you can lose more than the original limp even with 72o - after all, you'll occasionally hit a flop (e.g. 2 pair) that keeps you in yet ultimately loses for you.

I think Ed was on his way to accounting for all such quibbles when he postulated that making a preflop mistake with 72o "might get you into a situation where you make more mistakes and lose more... but the ORIGINAL mistake costs at most $2. Remember, you can always fold."

This distinction between preflop and postflop costs would seem to become less useful the better your hole cards, since postflop involvement becomes more and more likely. Even so it don't we often think this way when considering the cost of a draw?

E.g. with Kxs, if we flop a King our risk has jumped way up, but that wasn't what we had in mind when we limped it after many loose limpers - we were thinking that the majority of the time, our cost is limited to the initial limp if we play properly.

Aside from that I found the offsite thread mildly interesting but mostly very basic. What this says to me is that like many studious but untalented hold'em players I have a much better handle on preflop play than on postflop play.

[bernie]

Vacation?

heh heh.

b

oh, and thanks for the link. I bookmarked it.