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  #1  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:13 AM
kasey2004 kasey2004 is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Broke
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Default Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

Ok, first off I would like to say this is my first whining downswing post, and it does have a point.

I have been playing $11 and $22 SnGs & $16 turbo SnGs on Poker Stars for the past month or so and i wanted to move to Empire to get rake back and take advantage of all these fish i have heard about.

I have been a winning player for a while on Stars (no i dont have any huge stats database becasuse my laptop crashed with all my stats blah. Anyway, that was over about 200-300 SnGs, which i know isnt a huge sample but shows that i know how to play.

This past week i moved to Empire and have been playing $11s, and doing extremly terrible(see pictures)





My main question is should i not be pushing hands that would be +EV on Stars since the calling ranges on Party seem to be MUCH more loose ?

It seems like everyone on the bubble is trying to call your bluff or something like that. Maybe its just variance but i wanted to know if anyone has had simialar situations going from people with seemingly sane calling ranges (stars) to where people are calling with 57s 89s KTo ect. When im thinking of a pushing being +EV or -EV should i just put everyone on maniac calling ranges ?

Just looking for a little feedback.


[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Kasey [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:24 AM
lastchance lastchance is offline
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

Yeah, you do have to adjust to the looser calling ranges on Party, but eventually, the fishiness of these opponents should create an edge for you.

Another thing you have to adjust for is that you will constantly be short-stacked, unlike Stars. You have a lot less stack to work with, so you will need to push/fold.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:48 AM
sahala sahala is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

First off, to save the chart to a file just right click on the chart and click Save As. The screenshots you posted look messed up.

Are you playing too many hands? How many chips do you have at L4 and L5? It almost seems like your stack isn't big enough to have enough FE to force people to fold. Can you post some hand histories of your bubble play? Those 4th place finishes are way too high, so something's definitely off. I know in Stars it's easy to play a wider range of hands PF because of the deeper stacks. I had the reverse problem when I played on Stars for a while.
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:15 AM
kasey2004 kasey2004 is offline
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

Right away i had some trouble with the tigher hand selection preflop, but I seemed to be doing alright.

When i was getting to the bubble to start i was having varied stack sizes, but unlike stars when u get there without winning much for chips your not going to have that much of a stack.

i had chip leaders min-raise UTG 2 times recently (once i had AK once AQ) both times i was second in chips with maybe 12-14 BBs, both times they called almost all there stack with JTs (which i will take i guess) but both times they out drew and im done. I have had stacks down to 8BBs which should still be good enough for fold equity and im pushing what i think are +EV hands and getting called by people not getting odds with 22 or 33 or KT, or in 2 cases 89s and 57s.

Its obviously a small sample size but 20+ buy ins downswinging in 60 tournements is something i have never experianced before.

I have posted some HHs and i will post some more in the very near future.

My enormous amount of 4th places is mainly due to me not winning any races 60/40 50/50 or whatever, but i am rarely calling off my stack and usually have a tight image (if anyone notices at $11s) coming into the bubble. Other than not winning races, I just wanted to know if other people have played Stars and Party and noticed differences in Push/Calling bubble ranges.


[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Kasey [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

mega variance dood (at least i hope so), ive played 27 $11s since 8/01. 9 4ths!! Thats 1/3 of my dist.

But 20 buyins does sound kinda harsh, ive never experienced that at the $11s, and dont plan to.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:47 AM
emanon emanon is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

[ QUOTE ]
My enormous amount of 4th places is mainly due to me not winning any races 60/40 50/50 or whatever, but i am rarely calling off my stack and usually have a tight image (if anyone notices at $11s) coming into the bubble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Losing alot of races can just be statistics. Try flipping a coin 100 times and recording the results. I think you will be quite surprised by the output. I would go so far as to say I could recognize a string of "faked" coin flips compared to real coin flips. (I'll post why later).

Also, realize that if you are the short stacked player your opponents are very happy to get into races while you are not (they can shrug off a loss, but a win is great for them and horrible for you).

Also, realize that once the blinds get to a certain level, it's correct for your opponent to push you in with close to anything.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2005, 10:24 AM
Hornacek Hornacek is offline
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

If you keep on getting fourth, you probably need to push more with 5-6 people left... push the medium stacks, and let THEM ante themselves to death, not you. choose your spots!
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2005, 12:40 PM
jeffraider jeffraider is offline
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

You seem to be playing poorly around the bubble. Post lots of hands!
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2005, 01:40 PM
11t 11t is offline
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

Variance is not planned and no matter how hard you try you won't somehow escape it.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Stars SnGs vs. Party SnGs

I had the same problem. I moved from PokerStars to Empire to start recieving rake back. I had solid results at Stars in over 1,000 SnGs but at Empire I did terrible and had a small negative ROI.
Basic thing I think you are doing wrong (seeing high # of 4ths) is you are playing to tight when you are down to around 5 people left. At stars you can still be very tight and wait for a hand.
If you let your stack get low at Empire waiting for a hand the big stacks will call your all in and try to bust you as it dosnt really hurt them to make bad calls.
You need to open your pushing requirements earlier in the game and grow you chip stack to increase folding equity when on the bubble.
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