Never done this before

[jcm4ccc]

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You're getting 5-1, and the guy behind you is probably calling too. Plus implied odds if you hit a K. So even if homie has his aces face up you should be calling.


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What you are saying (and curtains says it too) makes no sense to me. If the guy shows you AA, there is an 80% chance that he will beat you. You will be out of the money 80% of the time, or you can have 600 chips to work with 100% of the time. If the guy shows me AA, I am absolutely folding. This is not a cash game.

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Or a big stack 20% of the time...and that's under the assumption that the guy shows you aces.

But account for the fact that he doesn't have aces. Maybe put him on a range of hands. Maybe say he'll do this with QQ+, AQs+, AKo. I dunno, pick a range.

The point is you can't peg him on aces - I think you said you haev no reads - thus 5-1 is just too good to pass up here.

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Yes, but you said "even if homie has his aces face up you should be calling." That's all I was responding to. That's a pet peeve of mine, I guess. In a tournament, just because you have the odds to call doesn't mean you should call.

As for the hand, of course I'm not folding my kings (even though my pocket kings have run into pocket aces three times in the past couple of days).

[adanthar]

First, everyone who says you have the odds to spike a K is utterly wrong and should read the hand again. No, you don't, unless you are planning to fold any non-K flop for your last t250. This is a two-part fallacy; first, you call because you are getting odds, then, you call because you are getting odds (that he doesn't have AA) again. What actually happens is you lose your stack. Not as big a deal when you have kings, but I've seen people do it with jacks (and done it myself once or twice when on monkey tilt) which is much worse.

Next, IF this guy is good and you have more of a read than just this hand, the fold is fine simply because nobody good does this with queens. MP2 makes this more complicated because he probably won't fold even to a push, and in many cases his presence helps you depending on his hand.

Anyway, I wouldn't fold here except to people I knew really well and didn't have my screenname, but it's not horrible.

edit: and now, let this thread die, because people are gonna get exactly the wrong impression from it

[pergesu]

fwiw, if your opponent does in fact show you AA, calling is horribly, horribly wrong, despite getting favorable pot odds. I know you guys know that, but I just wanted to come out and admit my oversight before someone really jumps on my back about it.

[benza13]

I was reading this thread and this hand came up. Not that I would have folded here, but the thread certainly encouraged my push.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter

CO (t905)
Button (t2320)
SB (t835)
BB (t790)
UTG (t745)
UTG+1 (t830)
Hero (t770)
MP2 (t805)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t770 (All-In)</font>, CO calls t570.

Flop: (t1565) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t1565) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1565) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1565

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kh Kd (full house, kings full of fives).
CO has As Ac (two pair, aces and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins t1565. </font>

[kyro]

This is a completely different scenario.

His scenario: Villain raises 3BB, Hero raises 6BB more, Villain reraises 3BB more.

Your scenario: Hero raises 5BB, Villain raises 8BB more.

It's the minreraise that triggered it.

[curtains]

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First, everyone who says you have the odds to spike a K is utterly wrong and should read the hand again. No, you don't, unless you are planning to fold any non-K flop for your last t250. This is a two-part fallacy; first, you call because you are getting odds, then, you call because you are getting odds (that he doesn't have AA) again. What actually happens is you lose your stack. Not as big a deal when you have kings, but I've seen people do it with jacks (and done it myself once or twice when on monkey tilt) which is much worse.

Next, IF this guy is good and you have more of a read than just this hand, the fold is fine simply because nobody good does this with queens. MP2 makes this more complicated because he probably won't fold even to a push, and in many cases his presence helps you depending on his hand.

Anyway, I wouldn't fold here except to people I knew really well and didn't have my screenname, but it's not horrible.

edit: and now, let this thread die, because people are gonna get exactly the wrong impression from it

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Cmon man, you do have the right odds, I'm not suggesting calling and then folding on the flop! I'm suggesting putting all the chips in preflop. I think it's obvious that we are saying this because of the dual chance that also our opponent doesn't have AA.