Why my ROI is lower than I'd like... (low content, humor)

Sidekick · #1 12-10-2004, 10:51 AM

Empire/Party Poker $10+$1 SnG.

It's bubble time! I'm sure I played this wrong, but when I saw the results I just cracked up. Hopefully a few others will get some laughs out of this one.

This has been a weird tournament. Table is full of table coaches and most of them are quite loose and make terrible calls. It all started when one of the players got sucked out on a runner, runner situation and then got abusive on the player that sucked out on him/her. The table nearly universally came to the defense of the poor player and the table has been poking fun/analyzing about half the hands since.

One of the main table coaches has been SB.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) converter

UTG (t1007)
MP1 (t780)
MP2 (t1550)
CO (t1054)
Button (t645)
SB (t1422)
Hero (t1542)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t400) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t200, Hero raises to t1342 (All-In), SB calls t1022 (All-In).

Turn: (t2964) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2964) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t2964

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qc Js (one pair, jacks).
SB has 2c 3c (two pair, threes and twos).
Outcome: SB wins t2844. Hero wins t120.

ilya · #2 12-10-2004, 03:08 PM

Wait, why do you think you played this wrong? I think you played it fine.

The Yugoslavian · #3 12-10-2004, 03:22 PM

I agree with Ilya here. Looks like you played this fine especially based on your reading of the table. Most hands that out kick you would have been raised preflop from the SB (AJ,KJ). High pocket pairs (AA-JJ) slow played preflop would have continued to be slow played as the flop is so ragged.

The only hand I think you're opponent could have here maybe is 93 and even that he'd want to slow play as it won't be outdrawn much on this flop. Of course, with the level of play at the table you describe, who knows how SB will play his cards -- but his bet is weak and you almost surely have the best hand on such a ragged board (with few draws to beat you).

You could have raised ~600 instead of allin but frankly, I like to ram and jam when the players at the table don't play logically and I can expect worse hands to call me (b/c they don't play logically). It will be perceived as a 'bully' move by the SB and I'm not too surprised he called you since he was being a table coach.

Another possibility with such a ragged flop is calling and then betting out the turn if no K or A comes -- this will confuse your opponent and probably induce a higher % of calls giving you great value from a random SB player who likes to call.

Do you have any specific questions about the hand? Because if this is just a 'look, PP players are horrible' we already know, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Also, this isn't really 'bubble time' with 7 players still in the tourny.

tubbyspencer · #4 12-10-2004, 04:05 PM

Your ROI would be even lower, if people didn't call your all-ins with the worst possible 5 outters! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sidekick · #5 12-10-2004, 04:41 PM

As I said, this was mostly just a post for the laugh factor. I didn't really feel like I played the hand poorly (either then or now...), but often someone posts up a response indicating that someone misplayed a hand somehow. So I figured I'd just take a shortcut and indicate that I might have misplayed this somehow (like not raising PF).

I know it isn't really bubble time. I put that in at first thinking to add to the humor (at first I thought it added humor, but then changed my mind about it), but then I could have sworn that I edited that out before I posted. Ah well.

Mostly the hand just cracked me up at the time and still kinda does when I think about it.

I know folks that play this way are what make the games so nice. Sometimes I can actually understand the thought processes that made them bet the way they did, but sometimes I just cannot fathom what is going through their heads.

Oh... and for what it's worth, your hand analysis is basically what I was thinking at the time. Believe me I was totally knocked off my chair when he/she called my all-in and flipped over 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I thought I had misread the board at first.

tigerite · #6 12-10-2004, 05:09 PM

You played it fine, but I might be tempted to push preflop myself.

The Yugoslavian · #7 12-10-2004, 09:41 PM

Oh, ok. I assumed the humor was in the hand he was holding but that you were seriously wondering if your play was standard/good/poor.

Frankly, I've stopped being too surprised (and/or too humored) at hands like 32s in those situations (and I haven't even played *that* much poker!). There are plenty of players who do crap like that (many who do it *sometimes* and even some who do it all the time).

Also, I'm not sure what he would have had there that you would have beaten on the flop that wouldn't be as funny as 32s. I guess he could have top pair weak kicker, but that's just as stupid and he actually has fewer outs.

Really reading an opponent at low buyins doesn't work too well. You just have to assume what a common player at the limit might hold and adjust. Since he's in the SB, like I said previously, he could have any two (I've seen much worse plays made by hands with no pair or maybe one overcard or even no overcards).

But hey, if you get +$EV off of suckers like that and at the same time +HumorEV then you should be extremely happy!
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]