Another fun give me a line hand.

mmbt0ne · #1 03-31-2005, 02:02 PM

Veterans need not respond unless they feel like it. This is about what some of you new players are doing in this situtaion.

UTG+1 is super-donk. 65/5 and very poor postflop
BB is 22.5/5 preflop, and has gone to showdown only 10% of the time, almost always showing down winners.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 7 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (9.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero...

Most importantly, really try to reason out why what you're doing is right, and why the other options are inferior.

LuckyStrike · #2 03-31-2005, 02:04 PM

I'd fold. With only 5% PFR, this really limits what he is 3-betting with preflop. AK or JJ+, I'd say.

UncleSalty · #3 03-31-2005, 02:11 PM

I think I smooth call this to see if we can bring UTG+1 along for the ride. A raise by UTG+1 probably means you're beat by a K and you can fold. You can safely fold the turn if you don't pick up a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or a T.

How'd I do?

joeski19 · #4 03-31-2005, 02:15 PM

Looks like an easy fold based on your read. He 3-bets us PF and leads out on the flop. What are we looking at? Smallish size pot, with an overcard on the board, and the rock is giving us action? easy fold.

big_river · #5 03-31-2005, 02:31 PM

If you think facing UTG+1 with two bets will fold him, then raise. A raise might buy you a free river card. If BB reraises you can probably put him on AA KK, or AK.

The pot is paying 9.5 - 1. You probably don't want to fold.

Calling means BB will bet into you again on the turn, and you won't have any better idea of his holdings.

UncleSalty · #6 03-31-2005, 02:35 PM

Let me expand on my thinking here:

If the rock has AA or KK, he's betting the nuts on the flop. If he has QQ, JJ, or AQ, he might bet the flop to see where he stands. UTG+1 cold-calling a 3 bet likely indicates any hand from AQ - 77 since we have no read on him. I think it's likely that at least one of these guys is behind.

If we're ahead of both we don't want to blow them off the pot with a raise. I think we're likely behind, but we have some drawing options to catch up so I don't want to fold to a single SB when I'm getting 10:1.

Can someone convince me that folding here is a better option than calling/raising?

Also, I am debating whether maybe we just want to raise UTG+1 out of the pot to get heads up against the rock. (If he only goes to showdown 10% we might be able to steal this pot on the turn HU if a scary card falls)

Thoughts?

bozlax · #7 03-31-2005, 02:51 PM

I'm reluctantly folding, here, but I feel like a pussy, and I hope that Villan #2 takes him to SD so I can see what he had. BB's range of preflop 3-bets makes me think that we're already behind...his betting out on the flop makes me think that he's concerned about the flush (i.e. he's not holding AK or Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]), but I don't think the flush draw is enough to save us.

(I just threw this into PokerStove, giving BB AA-JJ, AKs-KQs, and AKo...our equity is barely over 10%, and we're being beaten by the random 3rd hand at 15%. Edit: I just re-ran it, taking away KK from Villan, and our equity barely ticked up, but the random hand jumped a couple of points.)

Raising is the other possibility, fully prepared to fold to a 3-bet from either Villan. If they both call, I'm check/folding the turn unless a T or [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] falls.

mhardy · #8 03-31-2005, 02:58 PM

Personally I'd raise, mainly for cheap info but hoping for folds. stats can never tell you what someone is currently playing and TT short-handed is no slouch. He doesn't appear afraid of K but with his tightness he may fold thinking he's up against an EP raiser's set since you're not deferring to the aggressor. I say give him a chance to fold (and I'd fold to a reraise). You don't showdown 10% with all winners unless you've thrown away a few. But the risk is he thinks you're on a flush draw and willing to call down if no other spades appear. Even still, one more spade falling might actually convince him it IS time to fold

And secondly, as pf aggressor, even with two spades on the board, had I flopped KKK with an EP raiser there's no way I'd lead out short-handed. I would be thinking that the pot is small enough to risk losing that 9sb w/KKK against the chances the draws don't come in and I get an extra handful of bets by letting others lead until the river. So I don't think he's betting KKK.

hicherbie · #9 03-31-2005, 03:06 PM

if he is capable of betting on the come, then reraise with the intent of folding to a bet on turn, if you dont think BB would bet on come then fold right there.

JoeyMagsXXX · #10 03-31-2005, 04:34 PM

I'd have to say a raise or fold. More likely fold, as BB probably has top pair. A raise gets you info but I would fold to a reraise or an opening bet on the turn, if I didn't pickup the set.

Why bother calling?