88 with Axx flop

[wuarhg]

Villain 31/20, 2.5/2/2.5. Is this calldown sane? I thought he very well might be pushing a flushdraw or even a seven.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls... Intending to bet the river if checked to.

[wuarhg]

bump, standard?

[Zele]

Calldown with very vulnerable hand = bad.

You gotta 3bet the flop. If you 3bet the flop and he caps, I'd call and raise the turn if a not-so-scary card comes, folding to a 3bet and checking through the river unimproved. If he just calls the 3bet and checkraises the turn, then you can probably lay it down, unless you know this guy to a lot of turn CR semibluffs.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets, Hero calls... Intending to bet the river if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Id be happy to check that river back behind.

Is it standard? Dunno. I see that stats, but I'm not a huge stat guy. Does he check raise there with an ace more often than a draw? These are the things I like to know, instead of his VPIP. If I dont believe he has an ace, I may very well three bet his checkraise, bet the turn if checked to, and check the river behind. I like that line better than playing a guessing game on the flop.

Playing call down when the middle pair just paired up , an ace on the board, and a flush draw. Id rather stay in the lead on the flop, if I get checkraised on the turn, I'm gone.

Costs you less to do it this way then playing calldwon games.

[wuarhg]

You guys have a way better approach to this than I have. Do you always get aggressive when you have middle pair and the board is like this, then you fold to further aggression. Just curious about what goes on in your mind, draw heavy bord, vulnerable hand etc.

But yeah, my line was pretty awful, I can see that now. a veil has been lifted!

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you always get aggressive when you have middle pair and the board is like this, then you fold to further aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to make a general rule about this, but I'd say that's the gist - just insert "credible" between "further" and "aggression". If the guy is a real pusher, further raises are just as ambiguous as the earlier ones, and it's OK to go into calldown mode at some point. But not after the first flop CR.

[ QUOTE ]
a veil has been lifted!

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.

[Danenania]

There is not much point to 3-betting the flop since you have position, but you should definitely call down here. A lot of players with stats like that would never checkraise the flop with an A.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Calldown with very vulnerable hand = bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Putting lots of bets in with the worst hand = worse.

His most likely hands are a flush draw, an ace, or something like a pair of sevens.

The flush draw might well contain overcards to your wired 8's, in fact something like 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is a favorite against you. Unfortunately, there is no way to get him to fold the flush draw. I suppose that by raising you could perhaps convince him to lay down on the river if he makes a pair but *doesn't* make a flush, but this requires putting an awful lot of bets in and won't always work anyway.

Obviously you don't want to put a lot of bets in against an ace.

If he has just a pair of sevens, he has five outs against you - actually slightly less since he may share your kicker (87) or might be subjcet to a redraw. He would barely be correct to call on the flop with this hand and would be incorrect to call on the turn, so you don't mind his putting the bets in himself.

[Michael Davis]

I think you are looking at the wrong area if you're looking to do something different with this hand. You want to get to showdown tons in this game against aggressors, especially when there's only one overcard to your pair on the flop. Take the route that both ensures you will get to showdown and costs you the least money when you are behind.

-Michael

[Zele]

Point taken.

Damn, guess I need a veil lift of my own.