How far do you go when drawing to straigh flush?

[beekeeper]

A really interesting hand developed last night in our local game. Thankfully, I was not in it, so I had the pleasure of watching it.

The betting was average preflop, but on the flop it intensified until 2 players were all in. When they flipped their cards the small blind, with 2d4d, had a flush (3 small diamonds on the flop) and the big blind had 2 pair. The turn gave the bb a full house, and the river gave the sb a straight flush!

The first time I played in a casino, my first hand, I had 7c8c in the bb. The flop was 6c9cA. The betting was aggressive and I called to the turn, which was not a club, and I let the hand go when the betting started, figuring the price would get too high to chase.

I was just wondering, does the strength and potential payoff of a straight flush change how far one should be willing to go to pursue it? Does it make a difference if it's open-ended or gut shot? Especially when your flush otherwise would be a little flush, how would you play it when the betting is aggressive and/or it's a multiway pot?

[CJHunt]

Straight flush draw is 15 outs. assuming you think your straight or small flush would be good. I think that works out to like 30ish% that the river card fills you up. So I think if your getting 3-1 on the call it would be right. Right?

[Acehawk74]

As cookie cutter as this sounds, it depends.

I would think an ideal straight flush to chase would be an A2345, but you would more so approach the hand from the nut flush perspective. In this case, assuming youre holding something like A3s in the BB, and the flop comes 2 5 x with 2 and 5 being the same suit as your hand.. you would have 8 outs to the nut flush, and 1 out to the stone cold nuts, as well as 3 outs to a straight. So basically, all other considerations aside, you're looking at 12 outs. So.. as long as the pot is laying you the breakeven point or better, you can call. Question then turns to pot equity.. and this is situational. Should you bet/raise etc.. thats a further topic. Someone correct me if im off here, its early in the morning for me [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Oh, as it pertains to open-ended or gutshot str/flush draw, take a 23s with 45x on the board with 4 and 5 the same suit as your hand.

7 outs to a flush
2 outs to a straight flush
6 outs to a straight

so this would increase your outs to 15. At this point as before, the difference would be more shown in your pot equity, I would think folding here wouldn't be much of an option.

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]

The first time I played in a casino, my first hand, I had 7c8c in the bb. The flop was 6c9cA. The betting was aggressive and I called to the turn, which was not a club, and I let the hand go when the betting started, figuring the price would get too high to chase.


[/ QUOTE ]

First, we're going to assume that making your flush or your straight will win.

So, any club is good. That's 9 cards.
Any straight card is good. That 6 cards (don't count the clubs, they're already accounted for).

That's 15 outs. There are 47 unseen cards, of which 32 will not help you. Your odds are 32:15 or 2:1. And that's JUST ON THE NEXT CARD. There's no way you should lay down this hand unless you miss on the river as well.

[ QUOTE ]

I was just wondering, does the strength and potential payoff of a straight flush change how far one should be willing to go to pursue it? Does it make a difference if it's open-ended or gut shot? Especially when your flush otherwise would be a little flush, how would you play it when the betting is aggressive and/or it's a multiway pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gut shot vs. open ended does matter, but not that much. It would lower your outs by 3 cards, I believe.

When I have a flush, I want to play it hard if the board is not paired. If I can get action on my small flush, I'll take it. Flush over flush isn't all that common, and I refuse to be afraid that it will happen. This is only true though, if there are only 3 to the flush on board. If there is four to the flush and I don't have the nut high card, I will not play it hard.

Regards,

T

[Pov]

On the flop an open-ended straight flush draw is only a very small underdog to two pair - it is a favorite over most hands:

Board: 5d 8d Ac

---------equity (%)------------win (%)-----tie (%)
Hand 1: 51.2121 % --------51.21% ---00.00% -----{ As8s }
Hand 2: 48.7879 % --------48.79% ---00.00% -----{ 7d6d }