Turn and River decisions.......advice needed badly

Bubbagump · #1 08-24-2004, 04:58 PM

Since I began reading and posting on these forums, I've really made a concerted effort towards bringing my game up to the next level. One area where I am running into trouble is with decisions on the Turn and river when your opponent plays back at you. I know that the ability to make that crucial call on the river seems to be the gold standard by which everyone is judged on this forum, but I am really worried that I am paying off too much whereas 3 months ago, I probably was not making that final call enough. The following 5 hands, I think really illustrate my dilemma.

All comments appreciated.

HAND 1

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks,

Flop: (3.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB
Main Pot: 11.25 BB, between Button and Hero.

Do you pay this hand off? I'm not putting anybody on A5 or 65 as I have 2 or the 5's locked up. I and I figure anybody w/ an over pair would have raised me on the flop with that board.

HAND 2

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB
Main Pot: 14.75 BB, between BB and Hero.

Does anybody fold the turn here? The check raise screams 2 pair or set.

HAND 3

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB
Main Pot: 17.50 BB, between SB and Hero.

HAND 4

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

River: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB
Main Pot: 16 BB, between Hero and BB.

Should I have been able to get away from this hand at any point or do you have to pay this off?

HAND 5 (Last Hand)

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB
Main Pot: 11.25 BB, between BB and Hero.


Thanks for reading.

Bubbagump

nolanfan34 · #2 08-24-2004, 05:09 PM

Hand 1 - I think you played it fine. Button could have A2, or a pair like 66 or 77, so your line is OK here I think. They could easily also have A4 or A3, so I think going to a showdown here is warranted.

Hand 2 - Not sure I would instantly put BB on two pair or better here. I'd 3-bet, and if it's capped just check/call the river. If BB has a hand like QJ or JT, they could easily be waiting to pressure you on the turn if they think you have overcards like an AK or AQ.

Hand 3 - Played fine. If you run into QJ or KT here, not much you can do.

Hand 4 - Played fine. I'd pay off the raise, yes, even with the straight and flush possibilities. Then I'd punch the wall when the guy calling all the way with 97o drags the pot.

Hand 5 - Played fine as well. You're probably up against AA or KK here, but there will be enough times it's JJ that you can see a showdown. I'd play it the same.

spacemonkey57 · #3 08-24-2004, 05:19 PM

Hand 1: I'd check-fold the river unless you think the villan is capable of bluffing when the second two hit. That turn raise looks like A2 or even a set with 3s or 4s.

Hand 2: I'd call it down with no read. It looks like a set though.

Hand 3: I'd probably play it the same way. The stop n go worries me though.

Hand 4: Fine. There's nowhere to get away from that one. I think you'll win more than 1 out of 15 times.

Hand 5: I'd probably cap the flop and call it down if he leads out on the turn.