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  #1  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:01 AM
elysium elysium is offline
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Default new to internet. what does this mean?

hi everyone
i have been testing internet poker for the first time the past few days, and whew.....i've never played so many hands in so short a time before. they deal out hands fast. this site in question is paradise poker, where poker has gone to heaven.

i initially liked the games. this may not sound sincere but it is; the thing that i initially liked about the paradise games is that i was only subjected to collusion. that's fine. in fact, if you understand what the colluders are trying to achieve, collusion games are very profitable. also, collusion is very tough to do and often the colluders run into calling stations on a hot streak, or get trapped themselves between a victim and a quirk. but colluders actually show a sizable negative gain when facing a skilled player.

a skilled player can become so highly skilled that he actually makes subtle but correct compensation in his play in these collusion games. a skilled player can get the colluders to come at him when he wants, and stay out of reach at unfavorable times. the problem for the colluders is that they telegraph their intentions. the skilled player picks up on the telegraph, and manipulates the colluders and the rest of the field into a mathematical setting with a drawing hand, or a power setting with a surprising powerhouse. so, the skillful player becomes the force to recon with at the table. the fields turns to him for leadership. when the colluders are very strong, the skill player telegraphs the field to stay out. remember, the colluder and skill player are both vying for the field money. so the skilled player presents his case to the field that if they are going to lose, it is better to lose to the skilled player rather than the obvious gang of very menacing colluders. he also makes his wins a team effort. sometimes the colluders wither down to field people. a skilled player is very adapt at getting the table to support his wins.

he gets the colluders to run around and around until there butter like that. these skilled players can be awful skillful.

anyway, they are subtley suggesting to me at paradise that they don't really want me there playing after all. my thing was either leave right away and hope they send me my account balance, and i know that's a sensitive word so i'm saying it very softly (account balance), or do i stick around and find out what measures over and above collusion they were hinting at?

of course, i stuck around.

so what does it mean when you win the hand but the dealer pushes the pot over to the losing hand?

one of the protections against cheating is that hold em is so complex that it has certain aspects that are very unpredictable, and other aspects that are absolutely certain. for example, if you have a small set and your opponent has top two pair, he will always call you down and no pair will not reraise you. that's one aspect that is absolutely certain, but there are many others.

also, collusion does not mean a team of opponents who know what your hole cards are and the order of cards coming out of the deck, and then acting on that knowledge.

so whatever is going on is something that i know nothing about because i've never heard of such flagrant activity. it's not cheating either. there was a time when i didn't like cheating but most card mechanics going on is child's play for a skilled player. card mechanics only effect a small percentage of hands and are easily detected. this isn't an endorsement of cheating at the poker table, i just don't think that this is what is going on at paradise. i really don't know what it is officially called.

i'm in conference with members of paradise now advising them to develop at least a modicum of savoirfaire and to come home within the the parameters of something definable but its no use. yes, yes, they've signed up a king kong banking ceo and a few choice others. shoot, they took on me and tried to spit me out but i wanted find out how for the record books. i hung in there a little. as a matter of fact, i just received confirmation of a purchase that i didn't make with a debit card used only by one other merchant, yep you guessed it, paradise.

i ain't no ceo and all that, but i did a little swatting back today. at least one paradise ear is stinging. hate purchases you didn't make let you know you made at least some contact. but again, this is not the healthy give and play we all go through between colluders and low percentile card mechanics. colluders, card mechanics and i still ping. and i have yet to meet the first colluder or card mechanic that posed a lethal threat to the game we all know and love as poker. so what do you call it? what does this mean?
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:03 AM
Vehn Vehn is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

[ QUOTE ]
what does this mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2004, 05:12 AM
elysium elysium is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

hi vehn
yea, i get the gist of what you're saying there. sounds like a gang of corporate criminals in technocloak locked onto hole card knowledge and card distribution. i visited the internet forum here and as expected its littered with belly-ups. a gathering storm of victims and culling experts is beginning to churn, and finally it's being generally accepted that it's one of the most flagrant scams ever.

as the internet poker virus spreads and the poker anti-bodies try and find purchase for a different method of attack, it will be interesting to see who wins. i have some of the kids at the internet site here watching the cull in all its gory detail as the noose tightens around the scamsters. the problem vehn is that even after a cull, a remnant of these ilk remain and seems (plural?) to survive, whether through semantics, the cloak afforded through internet technology, or by some other means, they seem to survive a goodly cull and reinfest all over again. the consensus vehn is suggestive of a more drastic remedy if poker is to survive. if we become a nation of home-bound, the survivors will still want their fix of daily poker. if you and i sat back in our homes and did nothing when eventually the dreaded words are once again heard, 'well, what about internet poker then?', these scullywags will pick up nodes and scurry back to the scene. perhaps the bits and pieces of their poker hardware can then somehow be reassembled into some transmittable form. it may be black and white or in some way not quite what it is today, or maybe vehn they can restore the charade into reasonable graphics with a little color. and now maybe grandma can have her poker again, but once again grandmas card may reinvigorate the mutation process into full-blow 'dealer pushes pot over to losing hand' again.

not grammatically correct here vehn, but you get the point.

can these scullywags survive the tightening culling noose and reemerge into the virulent form of pokerosis the behind the scene networkers are tightening against today? not grammitically correct vehn, but you get the point. is this the beginning of black pokerosis death for live games too? and work around the semantics and grammer a little here vehn. focus instead on the pokerosis spreading world-wide by way of crook and computer tech. what say ye? do we burn?
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:15 PM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

Maybe you misread your hand, elysium.
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:33 PM
JTG51 JTG51 is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

so what does it mean when you win the hand but the dealer pushes the pot over to the losing hand?

This sounds pretty important. I don't suppose you made note of the hand history number so we can all take a look at it, did you?
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:35 PM
SoBeDude SoBeDude is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I play online.

I play on paradise.

I've never seen a pot pushed to a losing hand. ever. There are a very few times I thought it happend, but when I reviewed the hand history, I saw that I misread either mine or my opponents hand. He, in fact, did have the winner.

The crys of collusion seem like sour grapes. I've never really felt I've been trapped between two players pumping the pots when one has nothing.

I've had bad beats. I've seen horrible players raising and bluffing with garbage. But as a rule, I got their money, not the other way around.

-Scott
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Old 02-05-2004, 06:30 PM
Warik Warik is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

[ QUOTE ]
This sounds pretty important. I don't suppose you made note of the hand history number so we can all take a look at it, did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

He could be telling the truth you know. I had 27o on the button once so I had good position. The flop was 2c, 7c, 8c so I had two pair. Turn was Jc. And the river was 6c. I had two pair so I was ramming and jamming and some guy won with Ac Kc. Ace high???? I couldn't believe it. He had NOTHING. Online poker is rigged.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:52 PM
elysium elysium is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

hi ulysses
the money or a computer glitch here and there is not the issue. as for the hand history, that could easily be compiled by anyone who thought it might get him out of a jam. it's what these sites are doing to the game itself. the live games are put into grave risk when poker players are perceived as being apathetic and gullible. if the type of activity that goes on over the internet starts taking place in live games, when you go to cash-out you'll have some floor manager come over to you and stick a post it note on your forehead telling you to send your chips up to canada and you'll get your cashout when they feel good and ready.

hopefully, their use of poker as lure to gain the confidence of the public into participating in games that amount to nothing less than criminal use of electronic conveyance has angered poker players at every level, some in high places ulysses. we need consider preservation of the game. the money pipeline into these sites has been tied into a knot, but these guys will remember who gave them the money, and they will target poker players again, and again, and again. when the card-rooms find out how much poker players tolerated, they'll want to redeem your chips with that post it note too, just like the internet poker sites.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2004, 08:25 PM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

I've cashed out many times online with no problems.
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2004, 08:26 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default Re: new to internet. what does this mean?

Pretty good. You had me going there Warik. I was believing it because I just saw a guy cold call 2 bets with 27s. Of course he won flushed and when everyone's eyebrows bounced off the cieling, he responsed "but they were suited."
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