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  #11  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:10 PM
slavic slavic is offline
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Location: \"Let me make it nearly unanimous -- misplayed on every street.\"
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Default Re: SB slow-play in multi-way; board double coordinated

elysium - game theory goes out the window when you have the best possible hand and a large field. It's time to break out Kindergarden Poker and jam it.

Oh and while your at it, can you pass the paste?
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:46 PM
JimmyV JimmyV is offline
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Default Re: SB slow-play in multi-way; board double coordinated

Elysium,

This thread was over in terms of poker substance as soon as you said in your first post that you knew what to do "In hindsight." What you meant by this was not that results and reflection had shown you the proper play, but that reflection on your own post in progress had shown you in hindsight what the body of the POST should have said.

The post should have said, "I gave up a ton of EV and then oh yeah, also, someone else made his draw. Funny old thing, life." (In other words, I agree with Paluka and Ulysses.)

You're smarter than this. Bet the flop and try, for variance, to not be a nincompoop. Bet and raise. This is what nuts+redraws is all about. Others will build the pot, and you should have realized before your initial flop action that the check-raise was inappropriate. Bet and re-raise, and build the stairway to a large pot one riser at a time (cf. on the metaphor Ashley Adams' new stud book, under "Adding to your repertoire").

The real substance of this post w/r/t EV is only the question of whether the huge volume of crystal meth you're consuming justifies an in-home lab, and if so whether you begin pretty quickly to develop economies of scale that justify your developing a clientele, whether wholesale or retail. It's clear that you're just smoking TONS of the stuff.

Your fan,

JimmyV
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2003, 02:03 PM
Boopotts Boopotts is offline
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Default Re: SB slow-play in multi-way; board double coordinated

Unless there's a trick to this game that I haven't yet unearthed, I don't know how you could 'know' that the UTG has a legitimate draw before he even acts. That said, I refer you to Confucious, who, when asked how to play top set in a large, multi way pot, said:

"Grasshoppah, when you have the best hand, and the best draw, you must get as much money in the middle as possible."

One other thing-- there's virtually nobody in this hand who's a: drawing dead, and b: would see the next card for one bet, but not two. You've probably got about 287 active gutshot draws out against you, and they're all probably going to come no matter what the price (since a fair number of them have an overcard working), and those intrepid souls who will call with red 8's here aren't going to care what the price is either. If you can't get people to fold, then charge them as much as possible to finish the hand. It's really that simple.

Bummer about the river [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2003, 02:14 PM
OrangeHeat OrangeHeat is offline
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Default Re: SB slow-play in multi-way; board double coordinated

[ QUOTE ]
start a refresher course in hfap and top. you need to get back to basics. this happens when you don't rehash and restudy from time to time. i am beginning to notice some very bad plays again.


[/ QUOTE ] - elysium

The basics elysium, the basics....You have the best hand and a redraw...bet...since you didn't do that checkraise.

Chips like to be with other chips in the middle of the table. Do yours a favor and let them fly [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2003, 04:44 PM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: SB slow-play in multi-way; board double coordinated

[ QUOTE ]
i should definately bet out. but there is one problem in doing that.
....
i have been betting out from first a lot with the goods. when the set flops, i look at my watch and realize that it's time to check-bluff with the goods. and so i check-bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Save your check-bluffing for a time when the goods you have are not quite as good as top set in an 8-way field.
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