10-20 BB turn check-raise to get heads-up

[elysium]

this hand occurred the other night in a good loose 10-20.
most of the opponents were average to solid, with no one getting too far out of line. the button and UTG were both good with the button being good/solid.

the UTG limps, it's folded to the button who calls, and i knuckle from the BB with Ac8d.

the flop comes 864 all clubs. i check, the UTG checks, and the button bets. call, call.

turn; 8d. i check, UTG checks, and the button bets. here's the thing. i strongly suspect that the button has a flush already. i glance left and the UTG with overs or an over pair is ready to call. can he have a medium flush? yes. but i have trips and the nut flush draw. do i want the over-call by the UTG? i stopped momentarily to consider the situation, and i raised to raise out the UTG. i figured that whatever happens, i'll be calling on the river and i wanted my call to close the action. if a high card hit completing the flush, i didn't want to be trapped between two raisers. the UTG could check-raise, etc. i just wanted to be able to call on the river and have that call close the action. but was i correct to risk getting reraised by check-raising the turn to drive out the UTG who did fold? should i have kept him in and gotten his certain over-call? i felt that if the button had a flush that a reraise was highly unlikely, but he may have had a full-house at that point. was my turn check-raise correct for the reason i check-raised? how would you have played it any differently?

[Clarkmeister]

Why does the possibility that you are ahead never enter into the decision matrix?

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the possibility that you are ahead never enter into the decision matrix?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much what I was thinking. I'd have bet/three-bet the flop with vigor against two opponents. Hell, I'd do it against nine opponents.

I think the mistake in this hand was made on the flop, but given that you check-called the flop, I'd try to get a few extra bets in on the turn. Unless your opponents are full (and I doubt they are) or are very agressive with large made flushes, I cannot see more than two bets going into the pot on the turn from each player. Even if you are behind (which I doubt), you have a huge double-redraw. (flush and full house) I think the best way to get more bets into the pot on the turn is to checkraise. Then I'd bet the river no matter what comes off, if I was not three-bet.

-Diplomat

[Dynasty]

Even worse, if he is behind to a flush, the last thing he wants to do if fold out the third player in the hand. It's far better to put one bet in on the turn against two opponents rather than putting two bets in against one opponent.

He put UTG on an overpair (despite no pre-flop raise) or overcards. The overcards are drawing dead. The overpair is drawing to two outs. If the overpair contains a club, then elysium can't make his flush while UTG makes a full house. There's no way you want to fold UTG out with either of those hands or a singleton club.

[rigoletto]

I would be most worried about the 8d being in your hand AND on the board!

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be most worried about the 8d being in your hand AND on the board!

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you are just opening yourself up to all kinds of reading comprehension jokes. I won't make any. I'll just let you make a self-depricating retraction.

[Diplomat]

If both players called the checkraise, how do you play the river if a blank comes off?

-Diplomat

[rigoletto]

OK, I'll admit the joke is lame. But I can't see how reading comprehension figures into it?


and i knuckle from the BB with Ac8d.

turn; 8d

P.S. I've opned up to worse things than reading comprehension jokes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Dynasty]

Sorry. I quickly assume you were referring to the 8 on the flop which was "the flop comes 864 all clubs". Maybe I opend myself up to short attention span jokes?

[Ulysses]

Good work on the self-deprecating retraction. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]