Tournament Ruling: You make the call

[Mez]

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Haven't read any responses. IMO, this is a technicality, but the SB's hand is dead because he exposed his hand before declaring anything - "lets do it" is vague and his chips were moving in after exposing the hand.

Technically its a fold, IMO.

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It has nothing to do with the fact that he hadn't declared his action yet, but the fact that another player still had to make a decision.

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yes, very poorly worded post. I should go back to lurking..ugg.. I know the key issue is that there is still action left, albeit quite an easy decision.

[CardSharpCook]

BB can call or fold for 175. After the hand is done, IF SB has chips left he will be given a 10 minute penalty for exposing his hand.

Other possibility is that "let's do it" indicates a call. In which case, BB gets a free turn card, action continues on the turn. SB still gets 10 minute penalty for exposing hand.

[CardSharpCook]

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I thought exposing your hand while still in and then not folding that hand was a 10 minute penalty, not that the hand is dead. That came up a few times down at Indiana WSOP and that is how the rule played out there. The player who exposed his hand when it was his turn to act was given an option of playing the rest of the hand and be given a 10 minute penalty or folding and no penalty.

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I had a hand in which villian exposed an ace (ace on board too) after I had put him all-in (ON A BLUFF!!!!). He was allowed to call or fold, but got a ten-minute penalty regardless of his decision. He chose poorly. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think this is the proper result. "lets do it" = call.

[ZootMurph]

This is a very simple ruling. SB exposed his hand before action was completed. SBs hand is dead. He keeps his chips, as the hand was dead before he pushed them in.

Edit: This is a general rule in most houses in most tournaments. The rules for the specific house or tournament may be different. In every tournament and house I play in (in Atlantic City), the ruling is as I posted it.

[Lloyd]

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This is a very simple ruling. SB exposed his hand before action was completed. SBs hand is dead. He keeps his chips, as the hand was dead before he pushed them in.

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Rule 35 from the Tournament Director's Association:

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A player who exposes his cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his hand killed.

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Now, some people might say it's an easy decision because that's the way it is at their own casino. And not every casino or tournament uses the TDA rules. It's all up to the TD but hopefully the decision is based on fairness and not some technicality. For example, had the SB turned his cards over, looked into the soul of the BB and then pushed in his chips. Well, there's definitely an issue there (although according to TDA he'd be penalized and not have a dead hand). But that's a little different then if he turns over his cards and almost immediately pushes his chips in the middle. In that situation, I don't even think a penalty should apply as the SB didn't intentionally do something to gain an advantage nor did he affect anybody else since the hand was heads up.

[ZootMurph]

I was wrong. The last live tournament I played in was the Borgata Open. I still have the rules. Rule 13 states:

A player that exposes their cards during play will receive a warning but will not have their hand declared dead. any subsequent exposing of their hand will result in having their hand declared dead, time penalties, and possible expulsion from the tournament. 10 - 20 - 30 minutes away from the table will be used.

Also, we have rule 29:

Penalties: A penalty may be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, etc. etc. Penalties will be invoked in cases of abuse, disruptive behavior, and similar incidents. Penalties will start with 10 minutes away from the table, and can go up to expulsion from the tournament.

So, if this is his first offense, his hand is live and he gets a warning.

I know that at both the Tropicana and Taj Mahal in Atlantic City, the hand would be dead. The Borgata uses more 'Las Vegas-like' rules rather than standard AC rules. So, again, it depends on the rules of the house and/or the tournament.

[FrogMouth]

This situation happend to me in Vegas a couple months ago.

Final Table ~5 players:

Fold, MP raises 3x bb, fold, fold, Me in BB w/ATs

What struck me as odd was MP was semi short, and had been open pushing all night, and I made mention to the fact that he now just raised.

I sit back in my chair and think for a moment (I had him covered 3-1). In my head I'm thinking I'm playing for all his chips, and I'm sure he was thinking the same. I loudly announce call and he filps his cards showing 77 and starts to push the rest of his chips in. Table goes nuts, dealer makes him take his chips back leving the PFR, and deals the flop. While no official penalty, he has the unfortuante pleasure of me knowing his hole cards the rest of the (short) hand.

In your situation, SB didn't announce raise or all in, & he moved his chips to the middle. I don't see how that can be considered anything other than a call. Exposing his hand benifits no one but his opponent.

Put it this way, "let's do it!' doesn't mean hes folding. Call plain and simple.

[CardSharpCook]

Except that you don't have to verbalize your actions. "let's do it" doesn't really mean "call" "all-in" "bet" "raise" or "fold". However, pushing all of your chips into the pot in one motion means you are going all-in. Now, verbal counts more than physical (if you say raise to 20K, but put 2K in the pot, the dealer will request that you kindly put in the other 18K), but here there is no verbal, only physical, thus the bet is All-in.

[tipperdog]

There is no question that SB thought he was calling an all-in bet, correct? Given that fact, killing his hand would be perverse even if the "letter" of the rule says his hand should die (and I don't think the letter of rule so states).
TDs must exercise common sense!

I would say that action is now to the BB, who can call or fold for the remaining T175. I would also give a warning to SB for exposing his hand AND give a warning to BB for keeping "mixed stacks" that result in this kind of problem. Players must keep their stacks tidy.